fishguidebrian
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Guide/Powerline Construction
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Loc: WA, near Olympia
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Seems there is going to be a catch and kill derby in October on the Chehalis Basin with proceeds going to the Basin Task FOrce. Isn't this like the fox killing the chickens he was hired to protect?? One of the prime organisers is also a member of the commitee. We need the funds for the commitee yes, but the funds need to come from other sources, not from a resource we as sportsfishers expect ya all to protect!!!!. Even if the state has allowed a harvest guideline of around 1,600 Kings, should we really kill them all??????
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
Edited by fishguidebrian (07/11/07 08:59 PM)
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fishermanjosh
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Columbia river cracker
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Loc: Battle Ground WA
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Our fisheries managment  
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Sometimes, you just gotta go balls deep
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Marty
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redneck yachter
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Be nice to see some common sense come forward on this tourney.
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Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Catching is a skilled art built on fishing experiences
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Mojo
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Sturgeon Trainer
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There are a lot of people upset about this derby. For Marty's sake (and the Moderators), let's keep the discussion civil on this. I know it's a hot topic right now, I just don't want the Boss's blood pressure blasting off... 
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
TEAM MOOSE DROOL
TEAM SMOKIN' MERC
TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Alaksa Nitro Baits Pro Staff
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AuntyM
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Looking for a few good fish!
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There are too many inconsistencies for this derby to be as advertised. Let's just assume what we're reading elsewhere is bait for the time being and it isn't intended for us.
I have a theory, but I won't post it here.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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superfly
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Chromer
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Brian,
If you had a pair you would pick up a phone and call somebody and talk man to man, but you tend to air your ignorant opinions on line and take shots at people behind the protection of the web.
I suggest you man up
Peace
Fly
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www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
Boat service also availible.
I'm like sprint or Motorola no Service out of your range !!!!
Member Grays Harbor Salmon ManagementCommittee
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Trouthead
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Subject of the Puritan Rep. of Washington
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Seems to be an interesting thread but for those of us who don't read the other boards, what are you talking about that has everybody excited? Just a brief summary, don't need to read a book. Thanks.
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Trouthead
ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)
C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/
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Musicman
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Thick Tail
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Seems to me Joe, you're doing the same thing??? Brians # is posted on his link...I don't mean to cause trouble, just an observation.
It seems that the internet takes the "personal" touch out of relationships and with such, we say things via the WWW that we normally wouldn't say "face to face"...I agree with Joe that, having a pair, and saying to someones face what you feel isn't a common thing these days of the internet....
One thing we don't need is here say and rumor...post the facts or don't post at all....a fishing frenzy is way cool....a rumor mill to stir things up is not.
John
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JD
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AuntyM
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Looking for a few good fish!
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Superfly and Sol are having a tourney for coho and chinook in the Chehalis basin. The IDIOTS at WDFW can't count very well and think there are enough chinook for a commercial, tribal AND sport kill fishery. Fly is trying to make a point because WDFW wouldn't let them have a C&R steelhead tourney on the OP, he refuses to have a C&R tourney for the chinook, even though he's been fighting against the fishery for 3 years. The proceeds will go to the Chehalis Basin Task Force.
I tried nagging, even though I knew it wouldn't work.  Never works at home either.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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fish4steel
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Team Red White and Blue
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Here we go..............
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Team Jackson Baldwin
Duty, Honor, Country! 
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AuntyM
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Looking for a few good fish!
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We're the civilized group on the internet aren't we? We should be able to discuss this without the drama. Joe doesn't articulate his reasoning online all that well. It doesn't sound so bad if you talk to him.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Musicman
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Thick Tail
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Indeed AM, we are! Joes a good guy, Brian is too...they aren't the problem, just the focus...the wrong focus mind you...
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JD
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Marty
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redneck yachter
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How is this derby going to effect the fishery? Am I mistaken or wasn't the task force recommending no king fishery? I would be happy to help a fund raiser for the task force, but is a derby the correct choice. If so I am all for it.. I love derbies. not a bio so my information is pretty limited.
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Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Catching is a skilled art built on fishing experiences
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AuntyM
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The ADVISORY board that Joe serves on recommended against the fishery. The new Task Force will willingly take the money. I'd rather see them give it to the CCA or LLTK myself.
And I guess Francis did some numbers crunching and doesn't think the impact of the derby will matter in the long run. I think the message to WDFW is considered a higher priority.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Mojo
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Marsha, those boys ought to hire you as their PR person. You articulated the situation clearly and without emotion. I appreciate it. Maybe we ought to have all posts on any heated threads cleared through you. Thanks. Seriously!
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
TEAM MOOSE DROOL
TEAM SMOKIN' MERC
TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Alaksa Nitro Baits Pro Staff
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Musicman
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Thick Tail
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Mojo, you spoke my mind 100%...thanks Marsha, you're very thorough and accurate....I can usually trust you input 100%! Much thanks!
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JD
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superfly
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Chromer
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Aunty,
We are not done talking yet, I am glad you are taking the time to listen and understand mine and Sol's point of veiw, I will call you later when I catch up at work.
Peace, an Aunty M supporter
Fly
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www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
Boat service also availible.
I'm like sprint or Motorola no Service out of your range !!!!
Member Grays Harbor Salmon ManagementCommittee
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AuntyM
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Mojo, I don't have the energy to sweat the small stuff. I'd rather see if we can't get more salmon back to Idaho. 
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Marty
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redneck yachter
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Theres a reason we have tillas instead of derbies... removes the wdfw since we are just camping.
The state will review the permit on the derby and make changes as needed if any. Should make for some interesting reading when there response shows up.
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Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Catching is a skilled art built on fishing experiences
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AuntyM
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Do they even need one?
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/contests/index.htm
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-12-168
Quote:
Fishing Contests
A fishing contest is defined as any event where six or more licensed anglers (age 15 and older) fish competitively for game fish and determine winners, regardless of the prize value.
The WAC doesn't even list any rules for salmon, a food fish.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Musicman
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Thick Tail
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Ditto Marty...my first Cowtilla...a great time.... a great time putting faces to names and creating relationships in the process! Thanks!
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JD
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Fishhead5
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I'm hung like Einstein and smart as a horse
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I really don't feel someone has any room to biatch, that fishes for a very small native springer run on the same river, and kills them.
I doubt if the tourny will put 5 extra boats on the river that weekend anyway.
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Fishhead5
It is not illegal to deplete a fishery by management.
Limit all U.S. politicians to two terms:
One in office and one in prison!
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FireFish
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I have been on the phone with several folks this morning. We may see this Tourney's focus on Prizes awarded for Coho Only. This takes any excess pressure off the Kings. The regulations will allow for Chinook retention, we can't change that. It is a Choice everyone will make weather or not it is a Nook worth bonking.
The purpose for the tournament is for the right reasons, ie; generate monies for a good cause. Money generated in the Basin to stay in the programs in the Basin.
Some thought was put into this as in, it's not scheduled on the opener of Oct. 1st, that will be enough Chinook kill as it is. It's also scheduled after the the nets will have been in the system harvesting Nooks and Coho, so how much dmamge can the sporties do, in comparison.
Here is a post on another board from one of our committee Members.
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Before it's even happened this tournament has already drawn the crossfire of naysayers from all sides. I certainly do NOT want to contribute to the discord, but I do maintain my concerns about the tournament further encouraging/incentivizing the harvest of limited numbers of Chehalis-bound chinook.
I made the original plea for a C&R component for chinook, and I understand SOL and FLY's reluctance to deal with the WDFW BS that comes with a C&R tournament.
I've already stated how my boat will be conducting itself in the Chehalis Basin this fall... no hen retention and nothing over 30# comes aboard... as my personal effort to conserve limited numbers of chinook.
People are free to do what they want with the fish they legally catch, but I have reservations about an organized event incentivizing the killing of big kings just to win a prize.
I'll retract my call for a C&R component, but offer a compromise plan to eliminate chinook from the prize money. Make it a coho-only tournament.
Will chinook be caught? Absolutely. Will chinook be killed? Absolutely. But this way, it's entirely within the angler's personal ethics whether or not to wield the wood shampoo on a big king. Let's just not use the tournament as another reason for them to do so.
PEACE!
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____________________________________________________________
I don't think this will be as bad as some are screaming foul. Before some of us here get our shorts all bunched up, lets see what direction it goes.
FireFish Out... 
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Ryley
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cast- tick tick WHAM!
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Aunty, You are absolutely right, Derby permits are only required for game fish tournaments, not food fish. Found this out when I held a Blackmouth tourney a few years back.
Cheers!
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AuntyM
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Well, let me add a little more fuel to the fire.
I may have contributed to the bellyaching about this tourney, but it was based on the ideal of sportfishers holding on to the moral high ground. Well, you can only fall on your sword so many times before it no longer makes any sense. It didn't work for 3 years and it won't work in the future. Only after the run is so weak that is has to be ESA listed will we see an effort to reduce or end the fishery. As Bruce Hornsby reminded me on the radio today, that's just the way it is, some things will never change.
With that in mind, I'm going to withdraw my objections because if I'm not mistaken, the CCA believes that no sport season should be closed unless it can be proven scientifically that sport fishing is causing a decline. I posted a link to a CCA statement in a hearing back east saying as much in an internet debate elsewhere. If anyone can convince me sportfishing is causing the decline of the chinook, and not WDFW's poor management, I'll give you $100.
With that in mind, I'm going to ask Joe to consider giving half the money to CCA, since the other selected group, CBFTF, has commercial and tribal members. You may be keeping it in the basin, but it's also a path to enabling the same management we have now. That is in direct conflict with what the sport advisory board tried to accomplish. Commercial and tribal fishers join a group like this so they can demand their share later.
If and when the commercials and tribes see the error of their thinking and decide they can't harvest their way to recovery, I will give them the benefit of the doubt but not before.
CBFTF Members
Bob Balcombe
Boat Seafoods
Lloyd Case
Chehalis Tribe
Dennis Company
Elma Game Club
Friends of the Chehalis
Grays Harbor Council of Governments
Grays Harbor County
Grays Harbor Gillnetters
Grays Harbor Trout Unlimited
Green Diamond Resource Co.
Dave Hamilton
Heernet Environmental Foundation
Lakeside Industries
Long Live the Kings
Port of Grays Harbor
Steve Berggren
TransAlta Centralia Mining, LLC
Valentine Enterprises
Vaughan Co., Inc.
Washington Trollers
Westport Charterboat
Weyerhaeuser
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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FireFish
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Egg & Rag Master
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I also was in pursuit of 1/2 the money going to CCA Aunty, I think it only makes sense. Especially due to the fact that the fund raising will begin in the area very soon, to support each chapter and I think this would be a step in the right direction.
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Gooose
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Ancient Mod
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I'll still maintain my objections to including chinook in any Chehalis derby. A derby targeting just silvers is fine with me and donating the proceeds towards a worthy cause is a great idea.
My objection has very little to do with the actual chinook mortality that would be directly caused by a derby targeting them. It's the use of those fish in a battle with WDFW. I understand the proponents desire to have that battle but don't believe the chinook should be the ones used to carry out that fight. Just have a Coho derby, have fun and contribute to a worthy cause.
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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fishguidebrian
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Guide/Powerline Construction
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Joe, I'd send ya an E mail but your websites down.... As for a call, same thing,, no website no number..... As to the Springers Doug, ya know I killed a whopping ONE this year so I feel I have some room to biatch. I just don't like the idea of a group of people who are supposedly protecting a resource using funds from a catch and kill derby to support themselves.
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
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Gooose
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Ancient Mod
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Let's keep the personal stuff out of it....and yes I did in a moment of heat throw the first stone. My apologies to the board for that. On a personal note I consider Joe to be one of my closest friends. Nothing will change that...even if they keep chinook as part of this derby. I also understand his frustration with WDFW and reasoning for this derby that might include chinook. I also know he is aware of my reasoning against inclusion of chinook.
Simply my position is this. Irregardless of whether or not what the dedicated hard work of the Grays Harbor group has accomplished in the past 3 years or will in the future choosing to fight this battle with WDFW by these means at this time will not accomplish anything positive and might make things worse for the fish. WDFW might blink but since no derby permit is required they will likely just smile and ignore it for now. No battle and nothing gained or changed. Then next year and for years after whenever the Grays Harbor partisans ask for protective measures for chinook or for that matter steelhead also WDFW and the tribes can simply point out that the group apparently didn't care enough to walk their talk in the fall of 2007 and in fact condoned a derby that killed chinook when their pre North of Falcon proposals were to not have a chinook kill fishery that year.
Doesn't matter if the derby only put an additional 5 boats on the water for one day....or killed an additional few chinook. Is what you want tomorrow worth risking what you may lose forever?
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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fishguidebrian
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Guide/Powerline Construction
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Well put.....
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
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