fishguidebrian
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Seems there is going to be a catch and kill derby in October on the Chehalis Basin with proceeds going to the Basin Task FOrce. Isn't this like the fox killing the chickens he was hired to protect?? One of the prime organisers is also a member of the commitee. We need the funds for the commitee yes, but the funds need to come from other sources, not from a resource we as sportsfishers expect ya all to protect!!!!. Even if the state has allowed a harvest guideline of around 1,600 Kings, should we really kill them all??????
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
Edited by fishguidebrian (07/11/07 08:59 PM)
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fishermanjosh
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Columbia river cracker
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Our fisheries managment  
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Sometimes, you just gotta go balls deep
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Marty
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redneck yachter
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Be nice to see some common sense come forward on this tourney.
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Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
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Mojo
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There are a lot of people upset about this derby. For Marty's sake (and the Moderators), let's keep the discussion civil on this. I know it's a hot topic right now, I just don't want the Boss's blood pressure blasting off... 
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
TEAM MOOSE DROOL
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AuntyM
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There are too many inconsistencies for this derby to be as advertised. Let's just assume what we're reading elsewhere is bait for the time being and it isn't intended for us.
I have a theory, but I won't post it here.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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superfly
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Brian,
If you had a pair you would pick up a phone and call somebody and talk man to man, but you tend to air your ignorant opinions on line and take shots at people behind the protection of the web.
I suggest you man up
Peace
Fly
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www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
Boat service also availible.
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Trouthead
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Seems to be an interesting thread but for those of us who don't read the other boards, what are you talking about that has everybody excited? Just a brief summary, don't need to read a book. Thanks.
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Trouthead
ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)
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Musicman
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Thick Tail
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Seems to me Joe, you're doing the same thing??? Brians # is posted on his link...I don't mean to cause trouble, just an observation.
It seems that the internet takes the "personal" touch out of relationships and with such, we say things via the WWW that we normally wouldn't say "face to face"...I agree with Joe that, having a pair, and saying to someones face what you feel isn't a common thing these days of the internet....
One thing we don't need is here say and rumor...post the facts or don't post at all....a fishing frenzy is way cool....a rumor mill to stir things up is not.
John
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JD
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AuntyM
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Superfly and Sol are having a tourney for coho and chinook in the Chehalis basin. The IDIOTS at WDFW can't count very well and think there are enough chinook for a commercial, tribal AND sport kill fishery. Fly is trying to make a point because WDFW wouldn't let them have a C&R steelhead tourney on the OP, he refuses to have a C&R tourney for the chinook, even though he's been fighting against the fishery for 3 years. The proceeds will go to the Chehalis Basin Task Force.
I tried nagging, even though I knew it wouldn't work.  Never works at home either.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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fish4steel
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Here we go..............
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Team Jackson Baldwin
Duty, Honor, Country! 
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AuntyM
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We're the civilized group on the internet aren't we? We should be able to discuss this without the drama. Joe doesn't articulate his reasoning online all that well. It doesn't sound so bad if you talk to him.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Musicman
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Indeed AM, we are! Joes a good guy, Brian is too...they aren't the problem, just the focus...the wrong focus mind you...
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JD
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Marty
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How is this derby going to effect the fishery? Am I mistaken or wasn't the task force recommending no king fishery? I would be happy to help a fund raiser for the task force, but is a derby the correct choice. If so I am all for it.. I love derbies. not a bio so my information is pretty limited.
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Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Catching is a skilled art built on fishing experiences
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AuntyM
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The ADVISORY board that Joe serves on recommended against the fishery. The new Task Force will willingly take the money. I'd rather see them give it to the CCA or LLTK myself.
And I guess Francis did some numbers crunching and doesn't think the impact of the derby will matter in the long run. I think the message to WDFW is considered a higher priority.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Mojo
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Marsha, those boys ought to hire you as their PR person. You articulated the situation clearly and without emotion. I appreciate it. Maybe we ought to have all posts on any heated threads cleared through you. Thanks. Seriously!
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
TEAM MOOSE DROOL
TEAM SMOKIN' MERC
TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
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Musicman
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Mojo, you spoke my mind 100%...thanks Marsha, you're very thorough and accurate....I can usually trust you input 100%! Much thanks!
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JD
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superfly
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Aunty,
We are not done talking yet, I am glad you are taking the time to listen and understand mine and Sol's point of veiw, I will call you later when I catch up at work.
Peace, an Aunty M supporter
Fly
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www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
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AuntyM
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Mojo, I don't have the energy to sweat the small stuff. I'd rather see if we can't get more salmon back to Idaho. 
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Marty
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Theres a reason we have tillas instead of derbies... removes the wdfw since we are just camping.
The state will review the permit on the derby and make changes as needed if any. Should make for some interesting reading when there response shows up.
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Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Catching is a skilled art built on fishing experiences
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AuntyM
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Do they even need one?
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/contests/index.htm
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-12-168
Quote:
Fishing Contests
A fishing contest is defined as any event where six or more licensed anglers (age 15 and older) fish competitively for game fish and determine winners, regardless of the prize value.
The WAC doesn't even list any rules for salmon, a food fish.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Musicman
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Ditto Marty...my first Cowtilla...a great time.... a great time putting faces to names and creating relationships in the process! Thanks!
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JD
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Fishhead5
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I really don't feel someone has any room to biatch, that fishes for a very small native springer run on the same river, and kills them.
I doubt if the tourny will put 5 extra boats on the river that weekend anyway.
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Fishhead5
It is not illegal to deplete a fishery by management.
Limit all U.S. politicians to two terms:
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FireFish
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I have been on the phone with several folks this morning. We may see this Tourney's focus on Prizes awarded for Coho Only. This takes any excess pressure off the Kings. The regulations will allow for Chinook retention, we can't change that. It is a Choice everyone will make weather or not it is a Nook worth bonking.
The purpose for the tournament is for the right reasons, ie; generate monies for a good cause. Money generated in the Basin to stay in the programs in the Basin.
Some thought was put into this as in, it's not scheduled on the opener of Oct. 1st, that will be enough Chinook kill as it is. It's also scheduled after the the nets will have been in the system harvesting Nooks and Coho, so how much dmamge can the sporties do, in comparison.
Here is a post on another board from one of our committee Members.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Before it's even happened this tournament has already drawn the crossfire of naysayers from all sides. I certainly do NOT want to contribute to the discord, but I do maintain my concerns about the tournament further encouraging/incentivizing the harvest of limited numbers of Chehalis-bound chinook.
I made the original plea for a C&R component for chinook, and I understand SOL and FLY's reluctance to deal with the WDFW BS that comes with a C&R tournament.
I've already stated how my boat will be conducting itself in the Chehalis Basin this fall... no hen retention and nothing over 30# comes aboard... as my personal effort to conserve limited numbers of chinook.
People are free to do what they want with the fish they legally catch, but I have reservations about an organized event incentivizing the killing of big kings just to win a prize.
I'll retract my call for a C&R component, but offer a compromise plan to eliminate chinook from the prize money. Make it a coho-only tournament.
Will chinook be caught? Absolutely. Will chinook be killed? Absolutely. But this way, it's entirely within the angler's personal ethics whether or not to wield the wood shampoo on a big king. Let's just not use the tournament as another reason for them to do so.
PEACE!
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
I don't think this will be as bad as some are screaming foul. Before some of us here get our shorts all bunched up, lets see what direction it goes.
FireFish Out... 
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Ryley
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Aunty, You are absolutely right, Derby permits are only required for game fish tournaments, not food fish. Found this out when I held a Blackmouth tourney a few years back.
Cheers!
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AuntyM
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Well, let me add a little more fuel to the fire.
I may have contributed to the bellyaching about this tourney, but it was based on the ideal of sportfishers holding on to the moral high ground. Well, you can only fall on your sword so many times before it no longer makes any sense. It didn't work for 3 years and it won't work in the future. Only after the run is so weak that is has to be ESA listed will we see an effort to reduce or end the fishery. As Bruce Hornsby reminded me on the radio today, that's just the way it is, some things will never change.
With that in mind, I'm going to withdraw my objections because if I'm not mistaken, the CCA believes that no sport season should be closed unless it can be proven scientifically that sport fishing is causing a decline. I posted a link to a CCA statement in a hearing back east saying as much in an internet debate elsewhere. If anyone can convince me sportfishing is causing the decline of the chinook, and not WDFW's poor management, I'll give you $100.
With that in mind, I'm going to ask Joe to consider giving half the money to CCA, since the other selected group, CBFTF, has commercial and tribal members. You may be keeping it in the basin, but it's also a path to enabling the same management we have now. That is in direct conflict with what the sport advisory board tried to accomplish. Commercial and tribal fishers join a group like this so they can demand their share later.
If and when the commercials and tribes see the error of their thinking and decide they can't harvest their way to recovery, I will give them the benefit of the doubt but not before.
CBFTF Members
Bob Balcombe
Boat Seafoods
Lloyd Case
Chehalis Tribe
Dennis Company
Elma Game Club
Friends of the Chehalis
Grays Harbor Council of Governments
Grays Harbor County
Grays Harbor Gillnetters
Grays Harbor Trout Unlimited
Green Diamond Resource Co.
Dave Hamilton
Heernet Environmental Foundation
Lakeside Industries
Long Live the Kings
Port of Grays Harbor
Steve Berggren
TransAlta Centralia Mining, LLC
Valentine Enterprises
Vaughan Co., Inc.
Washington Trollers
Westport Charterboat
Weyerhaeuser
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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FireFish
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I also was in pursuit of 1/2 the money going to CCA Aunty, I think it only makes sense. Especially due to the fact that the fund raising will begin in the area very soon, to support each chapter and I think this would be a step in the right direction.
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Gooose
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I'll still maintain my objections to including chinook in any Chehalis derby. A derby targeting just silvers is fine with me and donating the proceeds towards a worthy cause is a great idea.
My objection has very little to do with the actual chinook mortality that would be directly caused by a derby targeting them. It's the use of those fish in a battle with WDFW. I understand the proponents desire to have that battle but don't believe the chinook should be the ones used to carry out that fight. Just have a Coho derby, have fun and contribute to a worthy cause.
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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fishguidebrian
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Joe, I'd send ya an E mail but your websites down.... As for a call, same thing,, no website no number..... As to the Springers Doug, ya know I killed a whopping ONE this year so I feel I have some room to biatch. I just don't like the idea of a group of people who are supposedly protecting a resource using funds from a catch and kill derby to support themselves.
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
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Gooose
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Let's keep the personal stuff out of it....and yes I did in a moment of heat throw the first stone. My apologies to the board for that. On a personal note I consider Joe to be one of my closest friends. Nothing will change that...even if they keep chinook as part of this derby. I also understand his frustration with WDFW and reasoning for this derby that might include chinook. I also know he is aware of my reasoning against inclusion of chinook.
Simply my position is this. Irregardless of whether or not what the dedicated hard work of the Grays Harbor group has accomplished in the past 3 years or will in the future choosing to fight this battle with WDFW by these means at this time will not accomplish anything positive and might make things worse for the fish. WDFW might blink but since no derby permit is required they will likely just smile and ignore it for now. No battle and nothing gained or changed. Then next year and for years after whenever the Grays Harbor partisans ask for protective measures for chinook or for that matter steelhead also WDFW and the tribes can simply point out that the group apparently didn't care enough to walk their talk in the fall of 2007 and in fact condoned a derby that killed chinook when their pre North of Falcon proposals were to not have a chinook kill fishery that year.
Doesn't matter if the derby only put an additional 5 boats on the water for one day....or killed an additional few chinook. Is what you want tomorrow worth risking what you may lose forever?
--------------------
"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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fishguidebrian
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Well put.....
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
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FireFish
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Well said Gooose, It's the same conversation I had with some of the board members earlier today. Do we want to deal with the fall out of this "One Day of Fishing" for years to come, I know I don't. Lets hope the right decisions are made...
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Gooose
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Firefish after the results of the past 3 years efforts I don't know what the right or wrong decisions are or where for you guys anymore except for this one. Even then my opinion may suck given the history of what has happened. In the end if Joe thinks including Chinook in this derby is the right move I'll remove my public opposition to it. It's gotten to the point where I really don't care anymore. One day I hoped to move back to the Harbor where I was born and raised and experience some bit of what I experienced back then. Fool's dream.
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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AuntyM
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I think we should all show up to SolFly and make Joe buy us beer.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Mojo
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I don't think he could afford it if the Droolers showed Marsha...
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
TEAM MOOSE DROOL
TEAM SMOKIN' MERC
TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Alaksa Nitro Baits Pro Staff
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ibgrizz
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They like Our BAIT!!
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Quote:
Mojo said:
I don't think he could afford it if the Droolers showed Marsha...
 
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"Team Jackson Baldwin"
Team Yamaha
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Eat Halibutt the other White Meat
Grizz Den 2007 pic’s
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AuntyM
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I think Bill Gates would have trouble providing enough beer for the droolers. 
I think ya'll have climate issues. Too dry over there!
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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Sounds like I need to hang out with the Droolers
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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Musicman
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Thick Tail
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Drink 1, pee 2....hehehe, sorry Marsha told!
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JD
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Mojo
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Come on over Timber. We really do fish sometimes in between beer drinking sessions. Veteran's Day Tilla on the Clearwater. Too much fun... Lots of beer and great food.
--------------------
Tight Lines,
Mojo
TEAM MOOSE DROOL
TEAM SMOKIN' MERC
TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Alaksa Nitro Baits Pro Staff
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superfly
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Watch what you wish for, I have seen Timber put away an 18 pack in the front of my boat in about 2 hours, then he asked me for mine !!! That Boy can drink !!!!!
Thats what sponsors are for, paying for tha alchohl consumption. JK !!!
Peace
Fly
--------------------
www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
Boat service also availible.
I'm like sprint or Motorola no Service out of your range !!!!
Member Grays Harbor Salmon ManagementCommittee
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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Veterans day tilla....HMMMMMM.... you just as well cut me in for next years tilla!! 
Joe, Get busy and I wouldnt have to drink your beer for ya
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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FGB- I'm not being rude but I for one know if you landed more then one it would have been bonked!!!
Just an obsevation... Not trying to ruffle feathers just speaking what I believe to be truth...
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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Gooose
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Just talked to Joe....we both understand each others position on the issue.
--------------------
"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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AuntyM
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Quote:
Just talked to Joe....we both understand each others position on the issue.
Gooose is no threat to anyone's beer.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Gooose
Online!
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I don't partake of spirits while fishing. Afterwards...well that Johnny Walker scotch and also that Captain Morgans Private Reserve rum was tasty.
--------------------
"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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superfly
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Timber,
You da man, Too Funny !!!!
Peace
Fly
--------------------
www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
Boat service also availible.
I'm like sprint or Motorola no Service out of your range !!!!
Member Grays Harbor Salmon ManagementCommittee
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fishguidebrian
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Darn true Timber, but the spring runs actually in better shape than the falls and doesn't have all the sport, tribal and commercial pressure.
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
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Gooose
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My objection to the inclusion of chinook in the derby has nothing to do with what the derby will cause to be harvested...reality is it will be a small amount. The larger reality and my concern is that it will give WDFW, Quinalts and nontribal gillnetters something to point to whenever anyone tries to ask for reduced or no harvest on Chehalis chinook in the future. The Grays harbor group has been lobbying for the past 3 years for reduced harvest impacts including recreational. They have been backdoored in each of those 3 years by simply 3 influential people so they can have their Johns River trophy fishery. Tony, Carl and Tim(recently retired from WDFW) enjoy to much power in their minds at NOF. BTW those 3 are all sport fishers. Having a derby including chinnok kill even when there is a paper estimated TAC for them gives the opposition including WDFW ammo for the future.
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"Seen worse".....
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Dogfish
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I'll be there with bells on.
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Be like Big Stick!
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Gooose
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No problem Andy. When the Grays harbor group tries to get WDFW to save those chinook when they are really extremely in need of help I'll simply point out to all of you your choice for harvest. And WDFW, the tribes and gill netters will also. Good luck to you all in the future on the harbor...enjoy what you have while it is there. I'm done assisting the Grays Harbor group.
--------------------
"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Dogfish
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Most of it for me is hanging out with the folks. I'd be fishing that general area anyway during that time of year, as would be a bunch of other folks.
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"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"
Be like Big Stick!
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FireFish
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Gooose, don't pull the plug of support just yet. I'm holding out for those who are organizing this thing to make the right choices. Award prizes for Coho only, period. I too don't want to fight the battle in the future when they can throw stones right back at our committee. I think everyone knows where I stand on this thing. I think Joe has the right intentions, I also think we need to be careful on how it plays out. One day of fishing can destroy any credability and support the Group has earned over the past three years.
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
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Musicman
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Good luck Duane, always hope brotha!
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JD
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ABUfreak
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don't know if i'll be joining any of you in the tournament, but be assured i'll be lurking on the chehalis chasing after those silvers. sure, kings are a welcome suprise but i let most of them go...too dark in that river most of the time. killing a fish for a trophy is stupid in my book, unless you're going to eat it.
i would love to see the day the satsop reopens for kings...but the way the chehalis is managed and the QIN factor, i wouldn't be suprised if that never comes around again. had a day about 4 years ago fishing for chums on the EF satsop, got pestered by a 30lb chromer while flipping spinners. always seemed to be impossible to catch them when the season was open, though.
i'm sure the folks at satko glen will still be out in full force...
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if we aren't supposed to eat fish, why are they made out of meat?
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Timber
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Quote:
fishguidebrian said:
Darn true Timber, but the spring runs actually in better shape than the falls and doesn't have all the sport, tribal and commercial pressure.
Sure it has pressure Brian thats what the nets below the nooch are..Not only steelhead but springers as well! Those nets are there dam near year round..
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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superfly
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Yes they are year around !!!
Also the last time the Satsop was open for Kings in 2001 or 2002 I believe it was me and 2 friends of mine landed 7 before 8:00 am with the smallest being 31 lbs and the largest 56 lbs. We kept the 56, 48, and 42 lb fish. After that we pretty much fished the rest of the season down there only targeting silvers and letting those fish go, you only need a couple of kings a year. I wish the WDFW would go to system limits like they do in Oregon.
Peace
Fly
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Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
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FireFish
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Ya, no kidding Fly, we've tried for three years now and WDFW want nothing to do with it. Just like they sit there and tell us that In-Season Management is not possible. Funny how successful it is in other areas. Course, they could not allow the Commercials and Tribes to fish based on number of days like they do, vrs. quota, then shut them down when the alotment is taken...
By the way, how's the Coho tourney coming along...
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Timber
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A couple years back I seen some nets below the Nooch in july and talked it WDFW about it and there answer was the tribes needed a few more springers to fill there quota!!I wonder how many summer runs they ended up with! 
I hook 100 plus kings in the sop ever year targeting silvers..I wonder how many the satko glenn bonk every year?? The one thing I will suggest to others that fish the nooch and sop in the fall is fish somewhat heavy gear get the kings in fast and get em on there way. DONT tire em to exhaustion just for the fight..I for one only bonk clipped coho even though in past years 1 nate a day could be bonked..
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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AuntyM
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Well it sounds to me like Fishdoc has a good plan to cure the "In-Season Management is not possible" issue. Now we just need to help him make it happen.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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FireFish
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I agree Aunty, Those numbers of "Accuracy" would get the attention from the folks at WDFW...
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Rainshadow
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How many Kings do they expect to return too the Halis system below the Satsop this year? Last year I fished it and we had to quit fishing eggs and kwickies because we could not keep the Kings off.. And that goes for the Nooch and the Satsop. From what I have seen in the few years I have fished down there is Big fish and plenty of fish. Looks like WDFW see the same. What is plenty of fish would be up for discussion anybody really know that answer. Instead of beating up on Solfly what are the numbers WDFW are looking at to obtain a kill fishery? Personaly Catch and release is my vote because those Kings are stinky buggers but as many as I have released I could kill one without loosing sleep.
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
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FireFish
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According to the WDFW 2007 Pre-Season Forecast, the Grays Harbor System is as follows:
Chehalis: Forecast-Wild; 15,501 Hatchery; 194 = 15,695
Goal-Wild; 12,364 Hatchery; 47 = 12,411
That means there are 3,284 fish to harvest and the system will still meet escapement.
The 3,284 is is split 50%/50% between the Tribes, so the Sportsman, Commercials and the Chehalis Tribe split the other 50%. That leaves 1642 to share between the three users in our group. To some it may seem like a lot of fish, but truly it is not. The commercials while fishing coho this year are able to keep Kings as by-catch. In the past they have been required to have two live/revival boxes on their boats and not retain any Chinook. This year, because they at WDFW, say there are enough fish to allow the sporties to harvest, they put into place rules for the commericals that they can keep their by-catch. They also have 60 minute net soak times this year as apposed to 45 minutes. The tribes will have plenty of days and be targeting Chinook, past hystory would show that when they have harvested their alloted 50% they will continue to fish, if they have more dates on the calendar agreed to. They don't stop when they exceed their 50%, they stop when their calendar days are done.
You need to understand that this fishery is managed for the Tribes Retention, of which they contribute nothing, and for the Commercials. The sporties where only given days to harvest Nooks, becuase of what the had already agreed to with the Tribes and Commerciasl behind close doors.
WDFW is banking on the fact that for the 30 days that Grays Harbor and the main stem Chehalis are open for Sporties Chinook retention, sports fisherman/woman will not retain more then 16 fish per day. That is what they are counting on. They are willing to manage our fisheries down to the last fish by counting on the fact we won't bonk more then 16 Nooks per day for the length of the season. Don't even get me going on the C&R Mortality.
To sum it up, it's a fragile system. they keep us at minimal numbers and it's a joke. I have yet to hear a fisheries biologist in any of our meetings state "we have far to amny chinook in the Grays Harbor system, we need to do something about it".
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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AuntyM
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Quote:
WDFW is banking on the fact that for the 30 days that Grays Harbor and the main stem Chehalis are open for Sporties Chinook retention, sports fisherman/woman will not retain more then 16 fish per day. That is what they are counting on. They are willing to manage our fisheries down to the last fish by counting on the fact we won't bonk more then 16 Nooks per day for the length of the season. Don't even get me going on the C&R Mortality.
Duane, adding the below comment strengthens your point.
Quote:
In 2006, over 350 kings were harvested on opening day alone
If that doesn't leave people scratching their heads, I'd be surprised.
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Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Rainshadow
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How many Kings do we need in that system before there are no more worries about Catch and kill?
Whats the target goal of enough fish here, the vision plan on numbers so we can sleep at night?
I grew up fishing the Sacramento systems so as you could amagin I have killed my share of Kings along with a thousand other anglers a day. I dont like to eat those darn stinky Kings but I have plenty of friends and family that do so when do you all feel it is a good time to kill them and when its not?
Is the Solfly really going to make as big an impact as you think? Last time I checked when they open a river for Kings you can hardly find a spot to fish, solfly or not fish are going to be killed. If they can raise a few bucks legaly while doing it sounds good to me.
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
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AuntyM
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Rainshadow, for some people who object to this, it's the prinicpal of the thing. For 3 years many of us on SH.net have supported the Chehalis basin advisory board in their attempts to get more spawning chinook back.
We don't normally post links to other boards, but this thread explains in detail just how emotional an issue this is. This was at the end of March/first of April. Keep in mind, guys like Firefish have put in a lot of time and effort, just to see sport fishers credibility go down the tubes. Then there are some that believe the numbers may be off so much, that even a few fish may make a difference.
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/forum.../gonew/1#UNREAD
For those who participate or sponsor the event, I am not going to condemn you for participating. You did not know the particulars when you became involved.
I am, however, going to box Superfisky's ears next time I see him. You know that's going to have him shaking in his waders! 
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Fishhead5
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16 fish will be bonked in the first 10 minuets of the opener. The only way things will change is when there are no more fish.
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Fishhead5
It is not illegal to deplete a fishery by management.
Limit all U.S. politicians to two terms:
One in office and one in prison!
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Timber
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I hear ya Doug!! Well when that happens half them A$$HOLES lose there job.
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fishdoc
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Fishead and Timber...and anyone else. We can choose to sit by and watch until the last fish is caught or we can fight like he** to keep that from happening. It is everybodys choice, I have fought for more years than I like to think about and I will fight until we have fish back or the last one is gone. I have a saying in my office: "Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game." I fear we can't win but in my opinion that means we have to fight even harder. Sadly that fight now will take a fair amount of money and a ton of time before we can make up ground.
Whos in??
As for the tourney...I have $200 for the largest silver caught in a Coho only tourney. Anybody willing to match that?
doc
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If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.
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Rainshadow
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I'm totaly confused on the issue that the Solfly will greatly impact the run of Kings in just a few days of fishing after it has already been open for a week of harvest and that most of us will be fishing it anywase. If the run is impacted hard enogh before that then would they not close it like they do in the ocean and on the Big C.. Seems to me the comercial harvest will dictate how long the Chehalis will be open not Solfly and thats the main issue. I say that if and when the time comes and there are fewer fish than what was estimated and from what I hear that is the norm then we all can make a dission at that time, sounds fair and I for one know that everybody involved in the Solfly will make the right dission. The folks involved in this gathering are not heathens and love these fish as much if not more than anyone I can think of. I have recieved emails from folks telling me not to sponser the Solfly and that really upsets me! No one, and I will stress this one more time, no one wants to see the fishery greatly impacted by this campaign and when the time comes the right decision will be made! Come on out and enjoy the fellow ship that has been brought to all of you who have worked so hard to preserve a great fishery and reep your rewards .
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
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fishdoc
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Rain it is not a matter of what is legal. It is a matter of future impacts on the ability to negotiate. There is no question that by having sportsman focusing a tourney that allows King kill when there is doubtful excess that move will allow the Quins and commercials to just say that sportsman could care less, it will undoubtedly hurt future gains. This run is not by any stretch healthy and sadly has become a political fishery.
doc
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If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.
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FireFish
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Well said Doc. Rain, just a few things to understand. 1st and formost, the seasons are not set up to have any In-Season Managment, that has already been stated. WDFW does nothing and will continue to do nothing, in the area of monitoring the harvest and close the fishery accordingly. They will do this on the Columbia, however this is not nor will it be the practice for the Grays Harbor Basin.
Again, Tribes fish based on an agreed apon calendar. All dates slated to be fished, will be fished, no matter what the take is. Commercials have been given dates to target Coho, they too will fish all the dates awarded and keep what ever Chinook are caught as Bi-Catch. Our additional impact on the Chinooks, as in the Sporties Harvest, compared to the Tribes could be some what less. However Aunty pointed out that the 1st day on the opener last year accounted for 350 fish bonked, and her figures are right on the mark. What Doc is stating has a lot of teeth to it. It's about the political position it will create for future negotiations that will complicate matters if the Sporties are tagged as another group that could care less about the future of these Kings. We could have great success and generate a good amount of money with a Coho Tourney. If Sporties want to keep Kings on that day just like any other day in October, then go ahead and do so. If there are no prizes awarded for Kings, then there will be no finger pointing in the future, in negotiations to deal with and the other groups will not have the ammo to state the Sporties Advertised and Harvested a large portion of the run, when it doesn't meet escapement.
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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AuntyM
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I need to add one more little tidbit for Rainshadow...
We aren't trying to ruin Sol/Fly's fun, no matter what you read elsewhere. Many of us are pals of Joe's (good grief, has anyone ever stuck up for Joe as much as I have?) not to mention we are all "fishing get together" minded people.
Joe picked the most controversial fall fishery in the state for this tournament and he KNEW (emphasis added!) it would be controversial when he started this. If he didn't want the drama, it was an easy thing to avoid.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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fishdoc
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Well said both of you. I want to see this tourney happen! It would be so awesome to raise money for the fishery and done correctly there is probably other money...serious money that could follow. The Chehalis needs in season management and it needs quotas. There are ways to get there but it takes bucks.
doc
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If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.
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6_degree_d
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I think there is a tourney every weekend for the Chehalis basin, in October.
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Timber
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When that system opens for kings its more like the 'gong show' 6 degree!!!
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If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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fishguidebrian
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yeah and the sad thing is, it's not just to POrter like normal,, it's the whole river.... no why on earth did the WDF&W do that?
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Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas![image]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0c7b4e93ebbfa720[/image]
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FireFish
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Past Porter is another one they stuck in there. It was never agreed apon, once again WDFW pretty much did what they wanted to do.
FireFish Out...
--------------------
Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Timber
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WDFW= The Gong show
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If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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fishdoc
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There will be less pressure on this weekend it is the opener for General Deer. Cast and Blast anyone?
doc
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If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.
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Rainshadow
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Ya you all better stand at the boat ramp pickiting no Kill on Kings because because if the water is rite it will be a blood bath down there. The guides will be harvesting that river daily I would "asume" other than Brian that Im sure will not be killing any Kings from his concern here. Sounds like once again WDFW has made a mess out of things and I'm sorry to see that.See you all at the shingdig!
--------------------
Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
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superfly
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Preach .....Preach my Brotha Amen
Peace
Fly
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www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
Now Booking for: Fall Salmon, Full and 1/2 day trips availible.
Boat service also availible.
I'm like sprint or Motorola no Service out of your range !!!!
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Gooose
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Yups let'em pound the crap out of them and blow thru the fish numbers predicted above escapement. Sad but hey it gives the Grays Harbor group more ammunition in challenging harvest plans in the future. I'll be there and if I hook a nook that's bleeding bad I'll whack it otherwise CNR on them for me. No issues from me with what others choose to do. Seasons already set and we can legally bonk nooks....I'd rather concentrate on changing things for the better in the future. 
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Ihookum
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Any truth to the rumor of a new tribal net schedule? I heard QIN and Chehalis will be going 4 in the tide water and then 3 on the Oakville Rez. Next week will be 3 tidewater and then 4 on the Rez. This will alternat e this way until springers. Upper river fish dont stand a chance.
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ABUfreak
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that's the saddest thing about the chehalis system, i'm suprised sports fishermen are even able to make an impact on it with the way the quinaults net...those nets would be in the water 25 hours a day, 8 days a week if it was possible.
no wonder the fishing on the skookumchuck was so lousy this year.
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if we aren't supposed to eat fish, why are they made out of meat?
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Fishmaster
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I know I try and make my impact. Bobber down, yep its got all its fins. 
At least the tribe wont get it, and send it to China.
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CastawayChris
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Now, lets change the pace a little people! So i see all of us are against the catch and kill season on kings! Well, we have boat ramps right, yep, so why don't we post a few picketing signs, poster, or whatever at the ramp summarizing the people thoughts and opinions! Also if we include a list of our goals and the impacts we could make if we reach our goals it would definately get some more attention! Just like Rainshadow said, the guides will be on this river daily along with who else? CLIENTS, clients who are also impacted by the loss of a fishery! What does 4 clients do generally while a guide is launching his sled? They stand there with their lunch in their hand waiting, therefore if we put some bulletins at the ramps we will get people reading them! If we impact 2 out of 4 people, that is 2 more we didn't have before and god knows we could use every soul! I would be more than happy to organize something like this and i'm sure my wife would be more than happy to help! Another thing, during this tourney, i think that we should observe other boats and if they release a king, recognize they're efforts a little more and maybe get a prize box together of lures or sporting goods coupons or something and also let that be known on our bulletin! Anybody else think this is a good idea? Let me know folks, arguing doesn't do anything for those fish!
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Rattlesnake Prostaff
Rainshadow Rod blanks and components
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6_degree_d
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Just for some informational purposes, since I do a pretty fair amount fishing out in the bay, last year fishing out in the bay was pretty peaceful until the first weekend of October, thats when the two week kill season started. It was a fricking zoo and typically is when you are allowed to kill kings.
So I guess what I'm saying is the people who show up to fish, for the majority are there to kill kings so I'm not sure how effective putting picket signs up at the ramps is going to be. But I guess something is better than nothing.
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Gooose
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Chris nearly everyone will have their minds made up by the time they get to the boat ramp in regards to bonking kings. Just the same it might not hurt to post some flyers explaining the situation and asking people to refrain from doing so and to target silvers instead. The posters wouldn't be able to claim allegiance/support from any organization including the Grays Harbor group/CCA or even this board(unless Marty Ok'd it). It would simply have to be presented as an anonymous request from Concerned Sportfishers of the Chehalis. Good idea but premature imho. Can't hurt though if you want to take it on by making the posters/signs and organizing making sure they are posted at all the access sites from Westport to Porter. Talk to Joe and Francis about it. I have to agree that at least it might make some people who are unaware to start thinking about the issues. I'll certainly assist with the design/editing of them and help post what I can plus help out on production costs to the degree that I can. To start you'll need some talking points for them from someone like Francis or maybe Firefish. I appreciate your enthusiasm on this.
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Trouthead
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I agree with Gooose and Chris. What we are trying to do is educate the un-informed. Some clients are only part-time fishermen, they are not up on everything that is going on. There are also the tourists that don't fish but do sit at boat ramps and look at the river. There are other boaters (ski bums, etc.) who might see the flyer and tell their fishing neighbor. I'm for any way to get the word out.
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Trouthead
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AuntyM
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A message from fishNphysician/Francis
The 2007 WDFW plan currently on the table is yet another sure-fire formula for over-exploitation. Think about it folks.... 501 fish for the bay comes out to a harvest rate of only 16 fish per day. Anybody out there actually believe the sport fleet is so lame that they can only muster 16 dead kings a day with hundreds of boats plying the water each day in October? Get real! I know a handful of regulars that could single-handedly blow thru those fish without blinking! That entire allocation will be bonked before we see three tide exchanges after the opening bell! Any takers on that bet?
The Mainstem Chehalis piece of the chinook retention season is only budgeting a kill rate of 21 fish per day. How quickly do you think sports will blow thru that allocation of 667 kings? With the effort we are likely to experience in GH, I give it a week max.... MAX!
Last year's harvest model underestimated exploitation by a factor of four! If that's the same model they used this year ( and that's anyone's guess because they won't divulge the model... too complex for us simpletons), what makes anyone think the result will be any different?
WDFW is obviously turning a blind eye to conservation.
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Rainshadow
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I find it extreamly hard to believe that they do not count daily catch and close it when the quota is met any one else find that ***ked UP? I thought this was 2007 not 1800..
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
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AuntyM
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One more reason the members of this committee and some others are miffed. No in season management.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Gooose
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One of the issues with inseason management is that it is a 2 edged sword. It could effect inseason fisheries for abundant silvers on the Harbor...posssibly closing them for chinook protection. Easy solution is to simply not allow a chinook fishery of any kind when predicted returns are such that that is a strong possibility of that happening. Quinalts are going to object to that and simply tell us that they are going to harvest upon the fish above escapement. Fine but we want inseason accountabilty on their catch also.
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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FireFish
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Come on Gooose, that will never happen. I know you know this, so this is for the education of the rest... The accountability for the information coming from the Tribes is simply this, and I quote, from the Director of WDFW region 6 Office "They tell us how much they have caught/retained when they feel they are obligated to". Another words, they let WDFW know what they want them to know. WDFW does not question the numbers as that would be considered rude and lead to mis-trust in our Co-Management working relationship...
FireFish Out...
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
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