Neurosis
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I have a friend that is going to drag me down there next weekend. I'm wondering if anyone fishes there and if so could you give any kind of report. Im sure were going to go no matter what but It would be nice if there are some fish in there.
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:56 PM)
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Oketa
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It hasn't been a banner year down here so you might as well go elsewhere
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:57 PM)
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Fish Jesus
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Neuro...wonder why this thread got hundreds of looks yet only one excellently worked response?
Small unboated rivers are special. Sharing them without actually knowing or having the person along to experience it with will in time cheapen the mystic the jewel possessed.
Leave the easy lippin reputation for the other media outlets. Steelheader.net is more about the fish! Help to keep it that way.
Hopefully at some point people will realize that, then Marty can stop looking over his shoulder for the local web haters.
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:57 PM)
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Neurosis
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I tried to respond to this once and I think it got trashed in the new system. I think FJ: that you may have done more bad than good with that reply but advice is duly noted. If you feel this way please let this thread waste away in the pages.
Next time you have advice for me that may not be good for a thread to be brought back to the top please shoot me an e-mail instead of leaving it alive.
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:57 PM)
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Fish Jesus
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How's that? My post was not intended as a slight to you about that particular river. Heck I have never even fished it. It was also not meant to reintroduce said river. It was only to point out a few practices that many members here endorse.
Sharing is best when the someone you choose to share it with is able to be there to share in the experience. Sharing small gems on an open forum takes away your choice to choose with whom you share. Osprey lends further insite within AuntyM's poll thread.
Who knows inviting someone with which to share may lead to long lasting friendships. 
FJ...out.
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plug puller
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king
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Good Job FJ. Let's keep those small rivers names off the net.
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Stadle
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FJ That one made me cringe. Right on
-------------------- did you see that??
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CaughtSteelin
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lookin for some fish mojo
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--------------------
Let our kids enjoy fishing...Join CCA today
CCA Member
Team non-nicotine(gawd damngit)
Little Hooker pro staff
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busybeaver
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sockeye
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Neouris it wasn't meant as a slight or anything personal. I had expressed my concern over the size of our board the impact it can have on these locations. We been getting 20,000+ weekly and thats mostly fishing fanatic visitors. Just 1% of the visitors would have people lining the banks on both sides. I have seen fishing and Hunting news destroy tranquil spots with overhype. I fully support editing out small stream names so we have a quiet place to share and love with friends or a hard working fella who stumbled apon it. It falls into the same princple that has hit many of our national parks getting loved to death. It is a part of the mystic of steelheading... finding that little piece of heaven.
-------------------- Marty
Welcome to my home ...
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driftin4steel
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Very well said!
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Snagly
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I just bought a Washington fishing license over the Internet. It came in the mail with a list of rivers and numeric codes for the punchcard. It's hard to see how this list of rivers contains any zippers. Would it be possible to say that the mods will leave in specific names of rivers that are "officially" listed as steelhead-hosts or is that still going to end up ruining some of the smaller pieces? (I think I know the answer as I see that the Moclips River is shown having a steelhead run yet even down towards the mouth it's basically a creek. I guess if it had a shot of fish and one person was a blabbermouth it would become very ugly, very quickly.)
But I thought I'd ask the question so we don't end up with a pissing match down the road when someone says, "You SOB's allowed the ABC River's name to appear and ruined it!" while someone else is unhappy that his request for information on a medium-sized river got edited.
* * * * *
Here's an idea. Marty should post a list of ALL the small zippers so we know which ones not to mention on the Board. That works, doesn't it?
-------------------- There's two types of anglers who fish fall steelhead on the Skeena and its tribs: thems thats got a spoon tied on, and thems that thinks that they should be usin' a spoon.
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Neurosis
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First of all I want to say to FJ and Marty both, I never took offense to FJs comment didn’t feel slighted in the least. It just didn’t make sense to me for a thread to be brought back to the top of the page just for the sake of telling me that its not in anyone's best interest to post names of small rivers on a public board.
With that said. I still don’t understand how posting the name of a river is such a tragedy. I’m guessing that most of the readers of this board know what a library is and know how to read maps and books. In these books and millions of other Internet resources these rivers and streams are revealed. I saw a post a month or so ago back that posted several rivers and streams that started off with –
Checking my computer, here's my list of the most productive fishing options in the NW.
FYI: I live in Puget Sound, so I know this list is biased, but I do try to go where ever the fish are.
I don’t remember any negative replies to that post, nor do I remember any river names edited out. I don’t want anyone to think I am trying to make a big deal out of this but gees guys.
I agree allot with what FJ says about sharing streams with friends etc, but if you think there aren’t the resources out there for people to find your favorite spots "cough cough" you'll more than likely to be seeing me in them in years to come. The question isn’t will I find them, but when, and the same goes for anyone with a decent amount of ambition and a bit of work. I can only be thankful for the people that have shared experiences with me and if when doing so they didn’t feel that I was grateful for it then I apologize. I can guarantee that I wont be posting any river names on this board in the future and I will be glad to share an experience that I had on this board but if I do catch a fish and anyone ever asks me where I caught it, I wont waste my time since the river name would probably be edited out anyway. I don't want to seem bitter here, but when in Rome right?
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98043
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Well said Marty you can always tell when one of the local rags has been blabing about a zipper.Trash and No TresPassing signs posted where none previously existed. I have seen this happen all around western washington. Anything that slows this or stops it from happening is a plus.
-------------------- I would rather be LUCKY then good any day
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Fish Jesus
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Bitter? When in Rome? 
I think you are taking my posts a bit out of context. I never said not to mention any river. Heck we speak of rivers equipt to handle added pressure all the time here. Everyone seems to respect that notion.
After you have done all the legwork come back in 20 years and tell me just how your favorite LITTLE river has changed over those years.
If anyone feels that their little river is not equipt to handle the added pressure the only way we could ever please anyone would be to let us know. 
Those who get it great those who don't sorry I'm done reiterating the point.
FJ...out.
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Snagly
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Neurosis, no one doubts you can do Web research, read books, and pore over topo maps to find out every good steelhead crick in Washington. That's how I do my fishing research from Singapore, and it works. So go do it, and no one will begrudge you your hard-earned successes. (It also helps to have met more experienced fishermen through this Board who are willing to share information and/ or take you fishing -- especially if they know you live 8000 miles away and visit only once a year!)
My point is that there are too many lurkers cruising this site (and the other two big ones) hoping for a scrap of information as to "where they are biting NOW". These people contribute nothing to our on-line communities. They may or may not be competent fishermen, but they indisputably take up space along the (smaller) rivers many cherish more for their solitude than their fish producing potential. Some times they leave trash or otherwise abuse the landowners' generosity and then everyone suffers.
When I first started posting a few years ago, I had no idea how many people were acting on the odd reference to hooking a heap of fish somewhere. Perhaps now you can better appreciate why some of the older hands are so sensitized to the mention of off-the-beaten-track rivers.
PS Marty isn't kidding when he says he gets singled out by others and cursed for indirectly publicizing fishing on the OP (despite never mentioning rivers himself). It's gotten so bad even his Mom doesn't speak with him some days . . . .
-------------------- There's two types of anglers who fish fall steelhead on the Skeena and its tribs: thems thats got a spoon tied on, and thems that thinks that they should be usin' a spoon.
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Neurosis
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FJ: I think you are looking at this like I aimed that last post at you directly. Thats not the case. I do understand what your saying 100% The only part of that last post that was directed at you was the part about bringing the thread back to life instead of letting it waste away. I dont want you to get me wrong here. The post is meant to show the feeling I get from a majority of the board. I notice that if I post the name of a river that people want to keep secret I am shuned, but the second me or someone posts that they cought a fish or for that matter got into a pile of them they are posting time after time "where were you fishing". That is my point. No hard feelings I hope. I'm not trying to make waves, just trying, in my own mind anyway, to let you know that from now on I will look at this board as more of a place to read about your favorite reel or rod or maybe what type of line you use. I dont mind meeting people on the board and I hope if I do they will be as great as Steve has been. On top of that I hope I dont get on his nerves by talking him to death while he's trying to fish. :D :D
Anyway.. i'll let this rest as well. No hard feelings please.
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fishinSinsation
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I think fishing is doomed no matter how you look at it, and you cant really put all the blame on the Internet for the boom of recent fishermen and women. It's called population growth, small rivers will be over fished, over populated, over trashed.. It's all a matter of time.. There really isn't much left to protect. Few more years everything will be like the Cowlitz, I bet before phones and the invention of the steam engine the Cowlitz was a zipper… damn technology………
-------------------- UA Local 32
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fishinfool
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Quote:
I think fishing is doomed no matter how you look at it, and you cant really put all the blame on the Internet for the boom of recent fishermen and women. It's called population growth, small rivers will be over fished, over populated, over trashed.. It's all a matter of time.. There really isn't much left to protect. Few more years everything will be like the Cowlitz
Guess i better hang it up now before it's to late...RECENT BOOM OF FISHERMEN....I fished the Cowlitz in the 70's and seen as much or more pressure than there is now..There is more to the Cowlitz than blue creek or the barrier dam...the cowlitz is a big river with lots of fish...I'm just not tellin ...I fished Blue creek last summer and had it all to myself...go figure. The Cowlitz is no different than all the rest. 90/10 still applies in crowds
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Osprey
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I was gonna post when I first saw this,and thought what(*edit*)cracker with a keyboard...... Im sure your friend really likes what you did neuro.  and now you say "I will look at this board as more of a place to read about your favorite reel or rod or maybe what type of line you use" why ....didn't you benefit from all the knowlegde that was sent your way,now you screw up a little so you decide to run away ..... You would have received the same treatment at the other boards as well.
I believe if I take someone to one of my spots be it a Zipper or just a good hole,I better not ever find you there with some one else.becasuse you take someone and they take someone........ 
I feel Ya FJ..all that hard work can go to Sh*t.....by just being a nice guy...........Os
--------------------
This is America.....explain to me why I have to press 1# to proceed in Freakin English!!!!
Dude .....was that your Rod !!!!
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Neurosis
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I’m lost here with that last post Osprey. What exactly did I do wrong? I asked for a report on a certain river. I see hundreds of posts like this a month. I never asked or told about any certain spot on the river nor did I even so much as ask directions to it. (Edit) cracker with a keyboard? I’m starting to feel like I am in the 5th grade again. I respect Fish Jesus’ posts 100% and see where he's coming from, but that last post? Yikes. Trust me I am not going anywhere. All I am saying is that I wont be asking for fishing reports anymore be it on that river or any other. I'll just let some other sucker do it and let him get called the (edit) cracker. Its posts like this one that I am talking about and why I feel that way.
You’re sure my friend likes what I did? I don’t understand that one either. He is the one that asked for the report. Once again nobody said anything about a specific hole or even area.
And for your information, I did post the same question on the other board and the people on that board did what I would have expected on this one if they didn’t want the pressure. THEY DIDNT REPLY!
The only statement I agree with was that last sentence to the last. I feel that same way. I would hate to take someone to a "zipper" hole and have that person tell everyone in the world. If I were to take them to a place that was already a populated fishing hole then it wouldn’t be as big of a deal.
I am sorry so see that someone would actually feel that way about someone asking for a fishing report on a river. I guess from now on just call me MR. (edit) Cracker.
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Duroboat
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king
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Nuro, I dont see where you did anything wrong at all. Like you said you didnt say go there and fish all you did was ask a question about a river you had never been too. BIG DEAL!!! If you want go to mrriver.com/rivers.html and take a look the river you asked about is on there list took all of ten seconds to find the list in search. good luck this weekend.
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Trouthead
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I don't think Neurosis did anything wrong either. Is it a waste of time going to X river? Valid question if you don't know anything about it. Yes or no is all that was required. Folks, I've got 40 years of notes on rivers in this state. Those notes are older then lots of the people on this board. Somebody best come up with a list of places that I can't talk about before I start publishing. I'm real sick of some "Johnnie-come-lately" telling me what I can talk about. I'm tired of all the people, nets and boats on the rivers that I fish also but I'm big enough to understand that everybody has the right to be there. Yea, I spent the time and effort to get my experience but I've got no problem saving others the hassle. Do we really need a section on this board called fishing reports if we can't give truthful reports?
I'll probably get the for this reply but , that's how I feel.
-------------------- Trouthead
ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)
C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/
Edited by Trouthead (01/30/03 10:17 AM)
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THE_PANTS
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And my husband, The Brewer, is always telling me that women are catty!......Marty, please close this thread.
-------------------- Brewtard...and proud to be one!
"Never expect the rewards of raising an adolescent to occur during their adolescence."
~Jeffrey Niess, Psychologist
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RT
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Note: This is another one of my long posts but I think something definitive needs to be done about this recurring theme. .....
This subject is one that gets re-cycled a lot on all the internet fishing discussion boards. I don't recall seeing the post that was made, but it seems obvious that he asked for a report about a smaller or less crowded river that get a few salmon and steelhead in it. I agree that he didn't do anything wrong. I think it's more a matter of how new people are alerted to the fishing cyberworld's "unwritten rule" that it's best not to mention those types of rivers where thousands of fishermen access info. Those "rules" don't have a clear cut line though. One man's 'zipper' stream may be to other's just one of the smaller rivers that most fishermen know about already. My .02 opinion is that 'when in doubt' about the amount of fishermen awareness of a less crowded place on a known river, or a smaller less known river, that it's best not to bring it into discussion on any of the internet fishing forums - especially what's commonly referred to as 'the big three' boards. All get a lot of attention from fisherman, and we don't want to bring 'X' % of them to such places where solitude is more important than the larger fish runs that are common in the well known rivers. But I think that some people have been jumped on a little too harshly for mentioning a subject they didn't know many fishers hold sacred. Let them know tactfully; preferably by email. Making another big issue about it here in public could just draw more attention to it.
For you new members or novice fishers, I suggest learning to fish on the rivers with bigger fish runs. The small rivers have less fish and a lot more landowner disdain of fishermen on them. Some guys will tolerate those negatives just to get away from other fishermen.
We can't edit posts past a half hour of posting them (at this point anyway), so if anyone wants to reconsider an edit then email Marty and the mods to do it for you. Perhaps a written rule, or at least a significant suggestion, should be put into the site rules page for new members that it's better not to mention more delicate small rivers or lesser known places? Then if one comes along, the first of the regulars that see it can click on an icon that alerts all moderators about it - then the first mod that sees it can take care of business. Just my opinion; likely shared by a lot of serious fishers.
As for most of the popular rivers, my opinion is they are fair game on here when someone asks about whether it's worth a day to fish it or not, including whether decent numbers of fish are present and what condition a river is in. And also fine to post about a successful day on those. They get way more smolt plants in them, with more fish for crowds to catch. And when a post goes out about good fishing occuring on them, such as the Cowlitz summer steelhead threads last year, then the extra people that thus go there won't go where I like to fish. Something to think about.
-------------------- Steve Hanson
www.reeltruthfishing.com
(see 'RT's Insider Page there - occasionally)
NOTE: We've sold out of our inventory of books. Watch for the 2nd edition, sometime this year. Thanks! ... btw, there are still a few of the books left at the Guide Shop (Tillamook) and Bob's Outdoor (Longview).
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busybeaver
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sockeye
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Steve one of the cool features is it is possible to highlight different areas of you post. Perhaps a bold on different theme sections or using different colors. The edit feature is set at 3 hrs right now.
-------------------- Marty
Welcome to my home ...
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Neurosis
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RT: That was the point I was trying to make from the beginning but it got lost in the confusion. My first reply to FJ's response wasn’t a personal attack or wasn’t meant to have him feel like I was in any way offended by his response. I just thought it would have been better for that response to be sent in an email rather then having it bring the thread back to the top of the page. I guess I can just blame it on me being simple. As stated above, I said to just send me an email if its something I shouldn’t be posting about. That way it wouldn’t have drawn attention to the thread at all and I wouldn’t have done it again. Now look at what’s become of this thread. It has become ridiculous. Remember, I'm new to the fishing web board so please take it easy on me. I'm fragile.
Besides.. where were all the negative reply's to this post??
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Rocket Red
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Hola Amigos,
I know it is late in the game, but I would like to chime in on this one too. I would like to see this thread live for a while as it is a good learning tool for new posters. I can't count the number of times that I have looked on the big 3 sites in the morning and cringed because one of the threads I saw started had named one of my zippers (Its like the mob, we don't name names) . Every hour I would look and make sure the thread was slowly sinking out of sight praying to the steelhead Gods that no one would respond.
Now I would just like to add a little bit to this for new posters/steelheaders (this is not aimed at Neurosis, but everyone who has read this far down the thread): Nobody sits on the side of a river with a laptop and a satellite connection posting reports as to how they did. You should learn to make your plans based on information you have gathered through trusted fishing buddies and empirical data. Newspaper reports are always week out of date, and F&H News is conjecture and half truths told by tackle shop owners and Guides trying to take pressure off of their beats by putting it on to someone elses.
Take that for what its worth, but I just calls 'em like I sees 'em.
-------------------- "Painter of light, my a$$!"
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fishinfool
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I feel the need to comment....
Auctioning a guided trip with map included to a small river¿¿¿¿¿¿??????
Hmmmmm...Head scratcher
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Fish Jesus
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Touche' Neurosis & Fishinfool! 
I didn't feel that any of this was any kind of personal attack. This board has many great points of view! 
FJ...out.
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buxndux
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Hey what river are we talking about? 
No, do not answer that, please!
Mankind will eventually mess up the entire world but we can atleast try to slow it down in any way possible. If you want info on a certain stream I feel you should try to contact someone who knows it on a one on one conversation. If they feel like sharing it that is their choice. I would prefer to be taken to these spots and shown how not just told "Hey there are fish in the ....... go fish it". With that said, if ya got a secret spot and ya want to tell somebody, here I am.
-------------------- Team JACE
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