Neurosis
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I have a friend that is going to drag me down there next weekend. I'm wondering if anyone fishes there and if so could you give any kind of report. Im sure were going to go no matter what but It would be nice if there are some fish in there.
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:56 PM)
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Oketa
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It hasn't been a banner year down here so you might as well go elsewhere 
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:57 PM)
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Fish Jesus
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Neuro...wonder why this thread got hundreds of looks yet only one excellently worked response? 
Small unboated rivers are special. Sharing them without actually knowing or having the person along to experience it with will in time cheapen the mystic the jewel possessed.
Leave the easy lippin reputation for the other media outlets. Steelheader.net is more about the fish! Help to keep it that way.
Hopefully at some point people will realize that, then Marty can stop looking over his shoulder for the local web haters. 
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:57 PM)
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Neurosis
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I tried to respond to this once and I think it got trashed in the new system. I think FJ: that you may have done more bad than good with that reply but advice is duly noted. If you feel this way please let this thread waste away in the pages.
Next time you have advice for me that may not be good for a thread to be brought back to the top please shoot me an e-mail instead of leaving it alive.
Edited by Fish Jesus (01/28/03 04:57 PM)
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Fish Jesus
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How's that?
My post was not intended as a slight to you about that particular river. Heck I have never even fished it. It was also not meant to reintroduce said river. It was only to point out a few practices that many members here endorse.
Sharing is best when the someone you choose to share it with is able to be there to share in the experience. Sharing small gems on an open forum takes away your choice to choose with whom you share. Osprey lends further insite within AuntyM's poll thread.
Who knows inviting someone with which to share may lead to long lasting friendships.
FJ...out.
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plug puller
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Good Job FJ. Let's keep those small rivers names off the net.
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Stadle
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FJ That one made me cringe. Right on
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did you see that??
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CaughtSteelin
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Let our kids enjoy fishing...Join CCA today
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busybeaver
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Neouris it wasn't meant as a slight or anything personal. I had expressed my concern over the size of our board the impact it can have on these locations. We been getting 20,000+ weekly and thats mostly fishing fanatic visitors. Just 1% of the visitors would have people lining the banks on both sides. I have seen fishing and Hunting news destroy tranquil spots with overhype. I fully support editing out small stream names so we have a quiet place to share and love with friends or a hard working fella who stumbled apon it. It falls into the same princple that has hit many of our national parks getting loved to death. It is a part of the mystic of steelheading... finding that little piece of heaven.
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Marty
Welcome to my home ...
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driftin4steel
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Very well said!
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Snagly
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I just bought a Washington fishing license over the Internet. It came in the mail with a list of rivers and numeric codes for the punchcard. It's hard to see how this list of rivers contains any zippers. Would it be possible to say that the mods will leave in specific names of rivers that are "officially" listed as steelhead-hosts or is that still going to end up ruining some of the smaller pieces? (I think I know the answer as I see that the Moclips River is shown having a steelhead run yet even down towards the mouth it's basically a creek. I guess if it had a shot of fish and one person was a blabbermouth it would become very ugly, very quickly.)
But I thought I'd ask the question so we don't end up with a pissing match down the road when someone says, "You SOB's allowed the ABC River's name to appear and ruined it!" while someone else is unhappy that his request for information on a medium-sized river got edited.
* * * * *
Here's an idea. Marty should post a list of ALL the small zippers so we know which ones not to mention on the Board. That works, doesn't it? 
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There's two types of anglers who fish fall steelhead on the Skeena and its tribs: thems thats got a spoon tied on, and thems that thinks that they should be usin' a spoon.
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Neurosis
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First of all I want to say to FJ and Marty both, I never took offense to FJs comment didn’t feel slighted in the least. It just didn’t make sense to me for a thread to be brought back to the top of the page just for the sake of telling me that its not in anyone's best interest to post names of small rivers on a public board.
With that said. I still don’t understand how posting the name of a river is such a tragedy. I’m guessing that most of the readers of this board know what a library is and know how to read maps and books. In these books and millions of other Internet resources these rivers and streams are revealed. I saw a post a month or so ago back that posted several rivers and streams that started off with –
Checking my computer, here's my list of the most productive fishing options in the NW.
FYI: I live in Puget Sound, so I know this list is biased, but I do try to go where ever the fish are.
I don’t remember any negative replies to that post, nor do I remember any river names edited out. I don’t want anyone to think I am trying to make a big deal out of this but gees guys.
I agree allot with what FJ says about sharing streams with friends etc, but if you think there aren’t the resources out there for people to find your favorite spots "cough cough" you'll more than likely to be seeing me in them in years to come. The question isn’t will I find them, but when, and the same goes for anyone with a decent amount of ambition and a bit of work. I can only be thankful for the people that have shared experiences with me and if when doing so they didn’t feel that I was grateful for it then I apologize. I can guarantee that I wont be posting any river names on this board in the future and I will be glad to share an experience that I had on this board but if I do catch a fish and anyone ever asks me where I caught it, I wont waste my time since the river name would probably be edited out anyway. I don't want to seem bitter here, but when in Rome right?
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98043
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Well said Marty
you can always tell when one of the local rags has been blabing about a zipper.Trash and No TresPassing signs posted where none previously existed.
I have seen this happen all around western washington.
Anything that slows this or stops it from happening is a plus.
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I would rather be LUCKY then good any day
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Fish Jesus
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Bitter? When in Rome?
I think you are taking my posts a bit out of context. I never said not to mention any river. Heck we speak of rivers equipt to handle added pressure all the time here. Everyone seems to respect that notion.
After you have done all the legwork come back in 20 years and tell me just how your favorite LITTLE river has changed over those years. 
If anyone feels that their little river is not equipt to handle the added pressure the only way we could ever please anyone would be to let us know. 
Those who get it great those who don't sorry I'm done reiterating the point.
FJ...out.
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Snagly
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Neurosis, no one doubts you can do Web research, read books, and pore over topo maps to find out every good steelhead crick in Washington. That's how I do my fishing research from Singapore, and it works. So go do it, and no one will begrudge you your hard-earned successes. (It also helps to have met more experienced fishermen through this Board who are willing to share information and/ or take you fishing -- especially if they know you live 8000 miles away and visit only once a year!)
My point is that there are too many lurkers cruising this site (and the other two big ones) hoping for a scrap of information as to "where they are biting NOW". These people contribute nothing to our on-line communities. They may or may not be competent fishermen, but they indisputably take up space along the (smaller) rivers many cherish more for their solitude than their fish producing potential. Some times they leave trash or otherwise abuse the landowners' generosity and then everyone suffers.
When I first started posting a few years ago, I had no idea how many people were acting on the odd reference to hooking a heap of fish somewhere. Perhaps now you can better appreciate why some of the older hands are so sensitized to the mention of off-the-beaten-track rivers.
PS Marty isn't kidding when he says he gets singled out by others and cursed for indirectly publicizing fishing on the OP (despite never mentioning rivers himself). It's gotten so bad even his Mom doesn't speak with him some days . . . .
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There's two types of anglers who fish fall steelhead on the Skeena and its tribs: thems thats got a spoon tied on, and thems that thinks that they should be usin' a spoon.
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Neurosis
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FJ: I think you are looking at this like I aimed that last post at you directly. Thats not the case. I do understand what your saying 100% The only part of that last post that was directed at you was the part about bringing the thread back to life instead of letting it waste away. I dont want you to get me wrong here. The post is meant to show the feeling I get from a majority of the board. I notice that if I post the name of a river that people want to keep secret I am shuned, but the second me or someone posts that they cought a fish or for that matter got into a pile of them they are posting time after time "where were you fishing". That is my point. No hard feelings I hope. I'm not trying to make waves, just trying, in my own mind anyway, to let you know that from now on I will look at this board as more of a place to read about your favorite reel or rod or maybe what type of line you use. I dont mind meeting people on the board and I hope if I do they will be as great as Steve has been. On top of that I hope I dont get on his nerves by talking him to death while he's trying to fish. :D :D
Anyway.. i'll let this rest as well. No hard feelings please.
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fishinSinsation
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I think fishing is doomed no matter how you look at it, and you cant really put all the blame on the Internet for the boom of recent fishermen and women. It's called population growth, small rivers will be over fished, over populated, over trashed.. It's all a matter of time.. There really isn't much left to protect. Few more years everything will be like the Cowlitz, I bet before phones and the invention of the steam engine the Cowlitz was a zipper… damn technology………
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UA Local 32
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fishinfool
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Quote:
I think fishing is doomed no matter how you look at it, and you cant really put all the blame on the Internet for the boom of recent fishermen and women. It's called population growth, small rivers will be over fished, over populated, over trashed.. It's all a matter of time.. There really isn't much left to protect. Few more years everything will be like the Cowlitz
Guess i better hang it up now before it's to late...RECENT BOOM OF FISHERMEN....I fished the Cowlitz in the 70's and seen as much or more pressure than there is now..There is more to the Cowlitz than blue creek or the barrier dam...the cowlitz is a big river with lots of fish...I'm just not tellin  ...I fished Blue creek last summer and had it all to myself...go figure. The Cowlitz is no different than all the rest.
90/10 still applies in crowds
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Osprey
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I was gonna post when I first saw this,and thought what(*edit*)cracker with a keyboard......
Im sure your friend really likes what you did neuro. 
and now you say "I will look at this board as more of a place to read about your favorite reel or rod or maybe what type of line you use"
why ....didn't you benefit from all the knowlegde that was sent your way,now you screw up a little so you decide to run away ..... You would have received the same treatment at the other boards as well.
I believe if I take someone to one of my spots be it a Zipper or just a good hole,I better not ever find you there with some one else.becasuse you take someone and they take someone........
I feel Ya FJ..all that hard work can go to Sh*t.....by just being a nice guy...........Os
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This is America.....explain to me why I have to press 1# to proceed in Freakin English!!!!
Dude .....was that your Rod !!!!
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Neurosis
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I’m lost here with that last post Osprey. What exactly did I do wrong? I asked for a report on a certain river. I see hundreds of posts like this a month. I never asked or told about any certain spot on the river nor did I even so much as ask directions to it. (Edit) cracker with a keyboard? I’m starting to feel like I am in the 5th grade again. I respect Fish Jesus’ posts 100% and see where he's coming from, but that last post? Yikes. Trust me I am not going anywhere. All I am saying is that I wont be asking for fishing reports anymore be it on that river or any other. I'll just let some other sucker do it and let him get called the (edit) cracker. Its posts like this one that I am talking about and why I feel that way.
You’re sure my friend likes what I did? I don’t understand that one either. He is the one that asked for the report. Once again nobody said anything about a specific hole or even area.
And for your information, I did post the same question on the other board and the people on that board did what I would have expected on this one if they didn’t want the pressure. THEY DIDNT REPLY!
The only statement I agree with was that last sentence to the last. I feel that same way. I would hate to take someone to a "zipper" hole and have that person tell everyone in the world. If I were to take them to a place that was already a populated fishing hole then it wouldn’t be as big of a deal.
I am sorry so see that someone would actually feel that way about someone asking for a fishing report on a river. I guess from now on just call me MR. (edit) Cracker.
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Duroboat
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Nuro,
I dont see where you did anything wrong at all. Like you said you didnt say go there and fish all you did was
ask a question about a river you had never been too. BIG DEAL!!!
If you want go to mrriver.com/rivers.html and take a look the river you asked about is on there list took
all of ten seconds to find the list in search. good luck this weekend.
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Trouthead
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I don't think Neurosis did anything wrong either. Is it a waste of time going to X river? Valid question if you don't know anything about it. Yes or no is all that was required. Folks, I've got 40 years of notes on rivers in this state. Those notes are older then lots of the people on this board. Somebody best come up with a list of places that I can't talk about before I start publishing. I'm real sick of some "Johnnie-come-lately" telling me what I can talk about. I'm tired of all the people, nets and boats on the rivers that I fish also but I'm big enough to understand that everybody has the right to be there. Yea, I spent the time and effort to get my experience but I've got no problem saving others the hassle. Do we really need a section on this board called fishing reports if we can't give truthful reports?
I'll probably get the for this reply but , that's how I feel.
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Trouthead
ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)
C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/
Edited by Trouthead (01/30/03 10:17 AM)
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THE_PANTS
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And my husband, The Brewer, is always telling me that women are catty!......Marty, please close this thread.
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Brewtard...and proud to be one!
"Never expect the rewards of raising an adolescent to occur during their adolescence."
~Jeffrey Niess, Psychologist
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RT
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Note: This is another one of my long posts but I think something definitive needs to be done about this recurring theme. .....
This subject is one that gets re-cycled a lot on all the internet fishing discussion boards. I don't recall seeing the post that was made, but it seems obvious that he asked for a report about a smaller or less crowded river that get a few salmon and steelhead in it. I agree that he didn't do anything wrong. I think it's more a matter of how new people are alerted to the fishing cyberworld's "unwritten rule" that it's best not to mention those types of rivers where thousands of fishermen access info. Those "rules" don't have a clear cut line though. One man's 'zipper' stream may be to other's just one of the smaller rivers that most fishermen know about already. My .02 opinion is that 'when in doubt' about the amount of fishermen awareness of a less crowded place on a known river, or a smaller less known river, that it's best not to bring it into discussion on any of the internet fishing forums - especially what's commonly referred to as 'the big three' boards. All get a lot of attention from fisherman, and we don't want to bring 'X' % of them to such places where solitude is more important than the larger fish runs that are common in the well known rivers. But I think that some people have been jumped on a little too harshly for mentioning a subject they didn't know many fishers hold sacred. Let them know tactfully; preferably by email. Making another big issue about it here in public could just draw more attention to it.
For you new members or novice fishers, I suggest learning to fish on the rivers with bigger fish runs. The small rivers have less fish and a lot more landowner disdain of fishermen on them. Some guys will tolerate those negatives just to get away from other fishermen.
We can't edit posts past a half hour of posting them (at this point anyway), so if anyone wants to reconsider an edit then email Marty and the mods to do it for you. Perhaps a written rule, or at least a significant suggestion, should be put into the site rules page for new members that it's better not to mention more delicate small rivers or lesser known places? Then if one comes along, the first of the regulars that see it can click on an icon that alerts all moderators about it - then the first mod that sees it can take care of business. Just my opinion; likely shared by a lot of serious fishers.
As for most of the popular rivers, my opinion is they are fair game on here when someone asks about whether it's worth a day to fish it or not, including whether decent numbers of fish are present and what condition a river is in. And also fine to post about a successful day on those. They get way more smolt plants in them, with more fish for crowds to catch. And when a post goes out about good fishing occuring on them, such as the Cowlitz summer steelhead threads last year, then the extra people that thus go there won't go where I like to fish. Something to think about.
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Steve Hanson
www.reeltruthfishing.com
(see 'RT's Insider Page there - occasionally)
NOTE: We've sold out of our inventory of books. Watch for the 2nd edition, sometime this year. Thanks! ... btw, there are still a few of the books left at the Guide Shop (Tillamook) and Bob's Outdoor (Longview).
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busybeaver
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sockeye
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Steve one of the cool features is it is possible to highlight different areas of you post. Perhaps a bold on different theme sections or using different colors. The edit feature is set at 3 hrs right now.
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Marty
Welcome to my home ...
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Neurosis
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RT: That was the point I was trying to make from the beginning but it got lost in the confusion. My first reply to FJ's response wasn’t a personal attack or wasn’t meant to have him feel like I was in any way offended by his response. I just thought it would have been better for that response to be sent in an email rather then having it bring the thread back to the top of the page. I guess I can just blame it on me being simple. As stated above, I said to just send me an email if its something I shouldn’t be posting about. That way it wouldn’t have drawn attention to the thread at all and I wouldn’t have done it again. Now look at what’s become of this thread. It has become ridiculous. Remember, I'm new to the fishing web board so please take it easy on me. I'm fragile.
Besides.. where were all the negative reply's to this post??
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Rocket Red
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Hola Amigos,
I know it is late in the game, but I would like to chime in on this one too. I would like to see this thread live for a while as it is a good learning tool for new posters. I can't count the number of times that I have looked on the big 3 sites in the morning and cringed because one of the threads I saw started had named one of my zippers (Its like the mob, we don't name names) . Every hour I would look and make sure the thread was slowly sinking out of sight praying to the steelhead Gods that no one would respond.
Now I would just like to add a little bit to this for new posters/steelheaders (this is not aimed at Neurosis, but everyone who has read this far down the thread): Nobody sits on the side of a river with a laptop and a satellite connection posting reports as to how they did. You should learn to make your plans based on information you have gathered through trusted fishing buddies and empirical data. Newspaper reports are always week out of date, and F&H News is conjecture and half truths told by tackle shop owners and Guides trying to take pressure off of their beats by putting it on to someone elses.
Take that for what its worth, but I just calls 'em like I sees 'em.
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"Painter of light, my a$$!"
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fishinfool
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I feel the need to comment....
Auctioning a guided trip with map included to a small river¿¿¿¿¿¿??????
Hmmmmm...Head scratcher
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Fish Jesus
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Touche' Neurosis & Fishinfool!
I didn't feel that any of this was any kind of personal attack. This board has many great points of view! 
FJ...out.
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buxndux
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Hey what river are we talking about?
No, do not answer that, please!
Mankind will eventually mess up the entire world but we can atleast try to slow it down in any way possible. If you want info on a certain stream I feel you should try to contact someone who knows it on a one on one conversation. If they feel like sharing it that is their choice. I would prefer to be taken to these spots and shown how not just told "Hey there are fish in the ....... go fish it". With that said, if ya got a secret spot and ya want to tell somebody, here I am.
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Team JACE
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Osprey
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WowI didn't mean that to sound like a personal attack on you,its hard to vocalize with font,I guess you didn't see the humor..huh
For that I appolgise
I assumed your friend didn't know about the inquiry in to the report...... Dam I was on a roll with that one too. 
The thing about the zipper was just a statement.
I should just let rocket say it He did it better
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This is America.....explain to me why I have to press 1# to proceed in Freakin English!!!!
Dude .....was that your Rod !!!!
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fishinfool
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I agree with Equiss...time to move on
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2_on_the_bank
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Thought I'd chime in as one of the "lurkers"...
This thread is a great example of why I read but don't post very often. There is a group of people that really enjoy slamming others for asking innocent questions and posting simple reports like "I got a nice one at....yesterday!" It's one thing to send a newbie a personal e-mail and lay it out as far as zippers go - you know with a wink and a "let's keep it quiet" attitude. It's completly different to call them out and make the original poster feel like a turd. My brother came up from AZ last month and hit his first steelhead ever(beatiful chrome bright hen) thanks to the help and DETAILED info that a few really nice members provided via personal e-mail. I have only fished the spots they told me once and have not been back. I have also not mentioned the locations to any others. Neurosis seems like a champ and the kind of person that fishes for all the right reasons. IMHO - you can't complain if you don't provide a solution first. If this is such a big issue, there should be a list of acceptable areas to mention by name and an explanation of why not to mention areas not on the list.
P.S. TROUTHEAD - It would be an honor to share a fishing trip with you. It seems to me that the experienced fisherman are supposed to share and teach the newbies the skills it takes to be productive fisherman. It's their right. When I'm older and more experienced and some yahoo tries to tell me what I can and can't post I bet I'll get pissed too.
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If it's r e a l l y important, I'll hear about it again. I'll be out fishing.
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WoodsyWayne
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I thought it might be time to break out some , help yourselves to the Popcorn.....Hey  speaking of which, anybody like Kettlekorn? ....J/K
Some really good comments from all sides, live and learn that is what life is about!
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Fishermans Prayer: G-d grant that I may fish until my dying day, and when it comes to my last cast I then most humbly pray, When in the the lord's safe landing net I'm peacefully asleep, that in his mercy I be judged as big enough to keep
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Neurosis
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Haha. Nice one Wayne.
Its a good thing you explained yourself Osprey cause I was |----| that close to whipping out the "I'm rubber and your glue" on your a$$! I guess we all learned a little something from this thread and hopefully even though it got a bit out of hand it will do some good. If nothing else I've learned that its easy to mis interpret text.
With all of that said. Anybody catching any fish on the @$#@ river?? Couldn’t resist.
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THE_PANTS
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It's about time all you guys got your panties out of a "knot"...
By the way, who is the smarta$$ who was asking for all this rain? I know we needed rain, but dude...the dance is over.
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Brewtard...and proud to be one!
"Never expect the rewards of raising an adolescent to occur during their adolescence."
~Jeffrey Niess, Psychologist
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Osprey
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He-Man Woman Haters Club
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Loc: Osprey Acres (Olympia)
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I was just venting,so much info is shared about techs and locations.Small rivers cannot take the pressure,some of you can sit back and say bla bla bla Os being a Jerk...maybe so
but I had to find my own places to fish I didn't read about them .Well I for one am done with any help on locations.... DONE!!! unless you want directions to blue creek
after learning that one of my favorite put ins has been closed because of over use.
You show one nice guy...and he takes 14 other people who also have friends.....and now
No more....... I agree No more........Os
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This is America.....explain to me why I have to press 1# to proceed in Freakin English!!!!
Dude .....was that your Rod !!!!
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Fish Jesus
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Pink Worminator
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Loc: your river
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With 926 views and being the hot thread...knotted panties must be all the rage!
I planned not to get back into it but since we are all entitled to our opinion. 
Knotted as they be they are still for what it is worth just my .02. We may not always agree on the same things or view them in the same light but who's to say who's wrong or right?  Isn't it more important to voice one's self rather than to roleplay the silent martyr when all has gone to hell? Having read all your .02's has left me with respecting your views for the simple fact this board you did use. All views are subject to change when you take the time to consider what other people say. We may not always agree but as long as we come away with a greater understanding of others beliefs the better off we'll be.
I have come away with some good things others have pointed out isn't that what it's all about?
On a general note.
Condescending jerks like myself are the reason lurkers don't post?  Here I was led to believe it was because they had nothing worthy to contribute. If it takes the likes of others or myself to shoulder the lurker guilt for not posting then so be it. When all's said and done (naturally barring a positive outcome) the silent voice will be the one's placing blame on the few that took the initiative to better understand our differences by talking it out.
I plan to work on making better judgements on how to deal with issues...privately or out in the open.
FJ...out.
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eyegouger
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silver
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Loc: Everwet,Wa
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FJ, just to let you know, I don't post very often due to the very reason you stated..nothing worthwhile to post! Don't let 'em get you down. Keep your hooks sharp!
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I asked for a bottle in front of me, not a frontal
lobotomy!
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2_on_the_bank
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2 salt
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Reged: 11/09/02
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Loc: King County, Washington
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FJ- Good points and well put. My original idea of contributing was to post where and how I catch fish. I quickly learned that doing so was not a good thing(..or at least I didn't know the right way to go about it) If there were guidelines that explained the zipper reasoning I think I would have been a more active member from the start...it might be the same for others.
Imagine you are a newbie who is completly thrilled about catching a nice fish and wanting to share the news. You post the details and maybe a picture on the board(which is frequented by really experienced fishrman who you look up to) You come back a day later hoping to find a "Hey nice job!" post but instead there's a thread that says "&*%&*% cracker $*^)*...this is the kind of stuff that ruins fishing spots..."
Most newbies can only offer their excitement for fishing in the beginning. Those posts are some of my favorites - I'd be happy if there were more of 'em.
Don't get me wrong - if I lived on a nice quite spot that had fish and it all of the sudden got slammed because of a board or too much blabbering - I'd be pissed. No doubt about it. How about we figure out a way to make it clear on what to post by name and call it good?
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If it's r e a l l y important, I'll hear about it again. I'll be out fishing.
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RT
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Native Slab
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Loc: NW OR
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Well said FJ. And you also '2-onthebank'. You are new here, and your last sentence - "How about we figure out a way to make it clear on what to post by name and call it good?" - called for something similar to what I did in my post. If it's well thought out, and presented as suggested quidelines instead of harsh rules, I think it will help this situation. IMO
How about some feedback on what people think would make for good guideline suggestions? Geeez, what a task! I don't think it's feasable to have a long list of which streams and places are acceptable to openly discuss. And obvious we can't list the zippers not to be mentioned - duh . But I'll post an example of what might help to include in the 'site rules and use suggestions' section, placed where it must be read during the registration process. And maybe put a small link icon atop the BB to it? Call it something like "Taboo Streams", or the like? ...
For the registration section and link, something like "While our site goals includes exchange of general fishing information, we do have a consensus preference that when naming streams and other fishing areas in reports or fishing stories it's best to keep them to fairly well known streams and places, and avoid posting about uncrowded places and small streams that have salmon and steelhead runs, which don't have enough room for crowds that could be drawn there by public exposure. For well known or bigger popular rivers and places, with good runs of planted fish, they are fair game; and reports and other information about those are well accepted." ... That's fairly general, but something along those lines should do some good.
Other suggestions?
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Steve Hanson
www.reeltruthfishing.com
(see 'RT's Insider Page there - occasionally)
NOTE: We've sold out of our inventory of books. Watch for the 2nd edition, sometime this year. Thanks! ... btw, there are still a few of the books left at the Guide Shop (Tillamook) and Bob's Outdoor (Longview).
Edited by RT (01/31/03 01:59 PM)
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Fish Jesus
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Pink Worminator
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Loc: your river
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Nice post 2otb! A lot of what you said makes perfect sense!
My apologies to Neurosis and Trouthead for using you both as the vehicle to inform this Co-op that we are not alone here.
I'm not oblivious to the fact that every likely fishable water has some sort of aid scripted literature available. Trouthead you and I both are of the same fishing generation. Our fish learning curve was aided by reading dated text documents in the hope of getting the edge on uncharted waters. Or by word of mouth. No matter how much information we had a few things were always certain. The freshest source has always been key to enjoying solace and good timing for bounty's of fresh fish. The freshest source being you or I who had taken the time to physically explore. Most times it was more about getting enough info. to be dangerous followed my many unsuccessful days learning what made it tick. Once timing and tick intercepted it would not be uncommon for only a handful of others to be aware of the bang. Shortly after the bang and aided by the next freshest source...word of mouth...we could expect the moderate influx of added pressure as time wore on. Accepting the crowds as fate we then foregot the lure of easy pickins to explore the next possible unknown.
With some new generation of fishers (this not meant as a harp) having the ability to utilize real time script by the click of a mouse has possibly lulled many into a false sense of entitlement. Sure everyone is entitled to share in the bounty I don't dispute that. It just seems that the exploration of unkowns and persistence that did once exist was always a major factor to enjoying the times when all things good came together.
Notice how the Classic fishers are always mum?
In order to coexist in a positive way threads like this are helpful in achieving common ground.
FJ...out.
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fishinSinsation
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Puke & Rally
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Loc: Kenmore, Wa
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Its not so much posting about little rivers, its about posting about any river that any board member fishes zipper or not. This fall I was fishing one of my favorite rivers that my family has lived on for 60+ years and well, I decided to post some pictures of the fish I caught, not trying to brag or seem like a pro fishermen that some people like timber continue giving me crap for, or other people making up rumors that I snag fish, or I am unethical in my catch and release techniques. Some people believe that EVERY river they fish is some kind of magical zipper, well these people need to get a clue. I know of many board members that are scared to post about highly fished rivers just because of the personal attacks that seem to follow every river report, be it a small river or large. I could post a lot of tips, or tricks to catch fish, but because of the attitude of many board members I tend to keep these tricks and tips to myself. what's the point of sharing my information with the ungrateful people who believe that they know all; even though, some people might benefit from the information posted. If you don't like what's posted because it talks about a river you fish (not the small rivers, I am talking highly fished larger rivers) to damn bad, deal with it.
I am all for protecting the small rivers, but on the case of the larger rivers NOT EVERY RIVER IS A ZIPPER.
Casey
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UA Local 32
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RT
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Native Slab
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Loc: NW OR
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I thought of another interesting factor in this debate - this new board now shows the number of views a thread has had. So far it seems that it is likely closer to a couple hundred than a couple thousand that will have seen a report about a river! I can recall one post estimated that 'if 1% of 20,000 people go to a small zipper river reported about, then that would add about 200 more people to a river the next time you show up there'. That's obviously beyond far fetched. But the concern over the long term effect about continued mention of zippers does have significants. Thus a policy statement might help.
However, watch the number of views a river fishing report gets. If it gets much over a couple hundred views before passing off the front page of the BB I'd be surprized. If 3% of the couple hundred views drove a long ways from around the region just because of a good fishing report, which is doubtful, that would be 6 more fishermen to a river within the following couple of days? Just an observational thought.
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Steve Hanson
www.reeltruthfishing.com
(see 'RT's Insider Page there - occasionally)
NOTE: We've sold out of our inventory of books. Watch for the 2nd edition, sometime this year. Thanks! ... btw, there are still a few of the books left at the Guide Shop (Tillamook) and Bob's Outdoor (Longview).
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workin4fishin
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Chromer - I wonder what one looks like up close
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Reged: 09/13/02
Posts: 3267
Loc: Monroe WA
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Page views are irrelavant. Unique user ID page views are only slightly more valid.
The only stat that really matters is too hard to collect accurately - unique user ID views of a thread. If the same bunch of us keep viewing and refreshing a page to see the latest rants, tautological arguments, or reasoned arguments from more experienced people, then the number is artificially inflated. Now, how's that for pretentious?
With our rivers looking like chocolate milk in a blender with logs tossed in for fun, look for lots more comments and flames in this thread. Hopefully some day soon, we may actually get back out there and see how many others don;t flock to our 'zipper' sections because it's too much work and only us obsessives really would walk that far in.
We are not schizoprhenic and we are not paranoid either, so stop listening to my thoughts
Long Live the Thread...
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j~ >')))><|
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Gooose
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Ancient Mod
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This thread does have potential for being a record breaker for number of posts. Which I believe is held by the infamous North River Sled thread over on Ifish? Second place is held by a thread off this board . That ones stored in the vault .
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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Neurosis
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Town Alchoholic
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Loc: Seattle
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Goddamn workin4fishn! I think I only understood about 4 words of that last post. I think this is a good argument for a new dictionary button. I had now idea that fishermen were edumacated.
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Stadle
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steelie
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Loc: Greater Seattle
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Here is what I think. The river that was used in the post is a small watershed that gets maybe 200 hatchery fish back per year. Rivers like this cannot take additional pressure not only from a fish perspective but also from the 'where the he** did all these people come from" perspective.
For those who don't think rivers can be ruined here are two examples. In the early to mid 90's my buddy moved to longview and we started fishing in that area for summer runs. We used to go up and fish the Green (Cowlitz county) and in late August early September we would stop by the mouth of the Green in late morning. There were not the number of silvers that there are now, but there was plenty and you could bang a few out. Maybe a couple other guys around and that was it. Now look at that place. Sure Fishing and Hunting News played a roll, but so did the internet. People posting about how many fish were there.
Ditto for the Kalama, fish it early in the morning for summer runs starting up top and work back down. We would run into maybe 5-10 people on the river all day. Now look at that place, last week in the PI the fish checker report said they checked 60 boats on that river for the week. 60 boats!!
The internet will bring people. People chasing the hot reports, people thinking, "hey, I didn't know that river had fish, maybe I should go hit it and get away from the crowds one day". Everyone is looking for new places to fish, places to fish that offer a little solitude. If you mention a river and mention that it is has fish people will show up.
Finally, I find it hard to believe that someone from the town that this river is named after actually needs to come to this board and ask for a report. Hell, most of the people that have the goods on this river probably don't even know this board exists.
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did you see that??
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Quillback
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South of the Mason/Dixon line
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Loc: Arkansas
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Yep, if you post about a "zipper" you just may see me there the next day! I like to fish different rivers for a change of scenery. One of the unfortunate facts of life these days is there are just too many fishermen, if you find a secret spot keep it to yourself.
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I'd rather be fishing
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Neurosis
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Town Alchoholic
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Loc: Seattle
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Quote:
My apologies to Neurosis and Trouthead for using you both as the vehicle to inform this Co-op that we are not alone here.
Actually FJ, Trouthead wasn’t the person that I was going with. The friend that asked for the report in the first place doesn’t even have a computer and has no idea what a fishing board is. Just to clear that up.
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workin4fishin
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Chromer - I wonder what one looks like up close
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Reged: 09/13/02
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Loc: Monroe WA
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A fishing board is kinda like a surfboard, only longer and with rod holders and oars or a motor, right?
What's a computer?
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j~ >')))><|
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busybeaver
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sockeye
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Reged: 03/31/01
Posts: 91
Loc: Western Washington
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I have to agree with quill back... I may be there the next day. Most rivers in western washington aren't that far away to keep folks from driving. How many folks live in pugetropolis now?
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Marty
Welcome to my home ...
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Osprey
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He-Man Woman Haters Club
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Reged: 05/10/00
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Loc: Osprey Acres (Olympia)
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A coulpe more views
A zipper can be a simply be a hole on a popular river ,that has taken someone years to learn how to fish correctly.
In the future just don't mention any river.
It's fun to try and guess....So keep it to e-mails
The same holds true for conflits
Remember the Web is powerful tool.....Things will never be the same again.....Os
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This is America.....explain to me why I have to press 1# to proceed in Freakin English!!!!
Dude .....was that your Rod !!!!
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Craven Moorehead
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Fins Fan
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Loc: Orting, Wa
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I hate it when my computer craps out and I miss a great debate like this one....take everything FJ and OS said and add me to that side of the equation. 
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10 foot, 500 lb Sturgeon club member
You can fool some of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time... Abraham Lincoln...still true today
Dolphins Fan Forever.
never horse a fish on a losing streak
Diet Coke Pro Staff
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Neurosis
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Town Alchoholic
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Loc: Seattle
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Does that include the misunderstandings?
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Lunker
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fry
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Reged: 01/09/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Figured I might as well chime in for the NEWBIES. The first thing I posted was a request for info on my favorite stream and was genltly but firmly rebuked for mentioning a "zipper". Which I had no idea what one was. I may be slow because it took me a while to figure out the terminology on this site and I still have trouble with some of the posts.
Not that anyone does or should care, but this is my perspective. I, and most of the people I know, am very busy with career, kids soccer games, PTA, volunteer work that I do not have the time to do as much fishing as I used to. As most of you know nothing replaces frequent time on the water to be able to go fishing with any confidence. I am a conscientious fisherman who would never do anything to harm any fishery. I got on this site excited that I had finally found a site frequented by like minded people who wouldn't mind sharing information that was not dated or skewed to sell magazines. But this thread has illustrated to me that I have been mistaken. Unfortunately, the impression I get is one of exclusion. It seems rife with disdain for anyone without the time or resources to fish many rivers and thereby glean his own information and then zip his lip. As someone stated earlier in this thread, why have an area on this site called fishing reports at all if it is going to be this clichish(sp?).
I don't mean to offend. I am just frustrated with all this and needed to vent.
I understand that it is best to do everything we can to protect our pristine waters as best and as long as we can, so I have no solution to the problem. Just wanted to put in my .02
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ynotfish
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dual red striper
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Reged: 12/13/01
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Loc: GoldBar, Wa.
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Lunker,
My advice would be to look for members who are in your area and email them questions about certain waters in your area I have several people I email back and forth with about good spots too fish around me. Noone has ever told me "none of your buissness" or anything in email. Heck ask em if they wanna go fishin maybe meet a new fishin buddy.
Good luck Mike
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Pro Team Wheres my float?
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cupo
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cookin' reels and killin' wading boots
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Reged: 12/26/01
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Loc: speeding on 530
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Lunker, let me see if I can summarize the points of your post.
1. You have a busy life (by choice)
2. You rarely get out to fish
3. You want people on this site to tell you when and where the fish are in
4. You're pissed because nobody will hand you (and the world) their favorite spot via this message board
The term is free lunch. I'm not trying to rip on you, but that's just what I took from your post. That's exactly why people don't share certain information here.
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This can't be healthy. All this fishing is really messing with my head.
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Gooose
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Ancient Mod
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Loc: In The Briar Patch
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I'd like to point out to the newbies that the special info they desire is available on this site...always has been and always will be. What you have to realize is that 98% of it is not immediately available at a click of the mouse or gonna be given out by anyone in a post for all to see. You get that info by being a positively contributing participant of the board community. By doing so you will soon find yourself invited to fish with the many knowledgeable fishers on this site...and you will learn much of what you desire. Not all but enough to keep you in the fish. With that comes the trust to respect that which you receive by treating your new found knowledge as something to be earned by the next fisher.
Anyway thats how it works.
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
Spam Kills x 8
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Craven Moorehead
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Fins Fan
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Reged: 10/17/01
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Loc: Orting, Wa
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Neurosis,
I like you buddy...any spot you want to know about, shoot me an e-mail and I'll help you out...if I can.
Gooose....excellent post....this is not a bunch of elitists that are unwilling to give out information to individuals, but we don't give it out to the 20,000+ people who visit this site weekly....think the editors of Fishing and Hunting Lies read this site?.....possibly...then not only would the computer savy suck information from this sight without any give back, but the mindless hoards who read that rag as well....
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10 foot, 500 lb Sturgeon club member
You can fool some of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time... Abraham Lincoln...still true today
Dolphins Fan Forever.
never horse a fish on a losing streak
Diet Coke Pro Staff
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CaughtSteelin
Offline
lookin for some fish mojo
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Reged: 01/06/03
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Loc: Sky Country
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WOW...........this is quite the thread(record?)I must say there is a wide variety of veiws here. alow me to voice mine(maybe repete some) . being from montana ive fished all my life. i like getting out and enjoying nature,usually the less people the better,the older i get the harder that is to find. it's a fact of life that there are more people goin to more places.I agree that we need to help keep it resonable, you dont want to tell joe schmoe(*and his 10 buddys about a "special" spot. I enjoy talkin and shareing fishing, i like takeing a freind fishing, if i think they'll tell everyone i'll take um too blue cr. or rieders.I dont know that much water around here but i like "finding it"(on my own), it makes it that much better, i'm not apposed to listening to someone tell me "there it is" , but i dont expect that. I like to share fishing, i have a soft spot for the young kids out there learning and lovein' it (reminds me of me), half the time they can tell me something.lets just remember that theres a lot of lurkers that wont even post the time of day, just looking for "the" hot tip. hell we all want to learn something......thats what we do. for the new guys that dont want to post for fear of ???? bla bla bla, post your opinion and let the responses fly! I'm new and I feel the "newbie" look on me but so ^#^%$in what, im a fisher just like eveyone here. take me as i am. well thats enough see ya on the next thread (if they'll still have me )
peace
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Let our kids enjoy fishing...Join CCA today
CCA Member
Team non-nicotine(gawd damngit)
Little Hooker pro staff
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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Reged: 06/05/01
Posts: 2183
Loc: Stumpy acres
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How about we just DONT post about small rivers! I can't believe how some people can't get that through there thick skull!
I guess there are a few folks out there that think there a hero by giving up small river names or taking someone on a part of river that use to have little presure. Hero my A$$ more like moron!
Learn like I did get out and FISH! why the helll should I give up info on rivers and spots that I spent money to find along with miles on truck and feet!!
You want a tech question feel free but dont ask or mention small rivers..
Hope I offended all you give me river info people!!
If you cant learn on your own what fun is it anyway?
TM
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All good things come to those who BAIT 
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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DanS
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Dawg
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Loc: Olympia, WA
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New guys are WAY better off reading tips on techniques and presentation than they are getting river names.
A good river and poor presentation will result in little action. Good presentation in ANY river gives you a pretty good chance of hooking fish.
You can make any river, creek or stream your own little zipper by learning its ins and outs. Why worry where everyone else if fishing?
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Dude......where's your rod??
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Neurosis
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Town Alchoholic
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Loc: Seattle
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Craven: Thanks. I appreciate that. When I first met you I thought you were a bit rough around the edges, meaning that I could tell that you were a seasoned fisherman and learned the hard way. Meeting you and Steve are probably one of the better things that have come from this board for me.
Timberman: I’m sorry that you feel that you must offend people to make a point. I can only hope that some day you realize that positive input will bring positive results. Negativity never does any good.
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Lunker
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fry
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Reged: 01/09/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Hey Noodle,
For someone who didn't want to rip on me you did a good job of it. You make me out as someone whose never fished a day in his life looking for an easy way in to info that others worked hard for. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have been fishing in this area all my life and until recent years have had enough time to get my own info. Which I have always shared with anyone eager to learn. While I shared info I always tryed to impart respect for our fisheries and other fishers. So it chaps my corkies to be told that I am some sort bum looking for a "free lunch", but I guess everyone is entitled to thier opinion.
Gooose and Ynot thank you for positive and helpful responses. I will be sure to follow your advice.
Thanks
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Osprey
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He-Man Woman Haters Club
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Loc: Osprey Acres (Olympia)
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A few more ...
"Does that include the misunderstandings? "
I was wrong to repremand you via the net,but you did kinda deserve it ...in a softer kinder method?
....an email would have worked.
For those that feel they are entitled to so much
Why should so many benefit from the efforts of a few ......Os
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This is America.....explain to me why I have to press 1# to proceed in Freakin English!!!!
Dude .....was that your Rod !!!!
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Duroboat
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king
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Reged: 10/07/02
Posts: 147
Loc: Des Moines
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What makes a river a zipper?? The size of it or the number of returning fish to it.Or limited access.Or maybe its just afew guys who think they own the river or hole.Just wondering.I just got back from GI joes (hope this isnt a zipper store) picked up a copy of the Reel News january edition.In it there is a list of the 25 hottest winter steelhead rivers listed by catch numbers.I thought it was pretty funny to see alot of the zippers listed high on the list.But the river I spend most of my time on falling in at #19. But nobody thinks of it as a zipper I seen it posted many times here.Even the river that started this thread was higher than #19.So after looking at that info it makes me think that what makes a zipper isnt the size,# of fish,or access. It is just that afew fisherman dont want to share THERE river.I have also noticed one of the easy ways to find a good hole on some rivers is to follow the trail of trash.Which could have only been left by those spiecal fisherman that know these secret holes. Or maybe this is just left so you can find the hole again.
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Rocklizard
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Bear Bait
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Reged: 12/21/00
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Loc: Anchorage, AK
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Quote:
I have also noticed one of the easy ways to find a good hole on some rivers is to follow the trail of trash.Which could have only been left by those spiecal fisherman that know these secret holes. Or maybe this is just left so you can find the hole again.
Duro,
I think thats exactly the reason people get so uptight about advertising small streams, with more people comes more trash. I think its safe to say that most of the time if your fishing in a trash riden hole...its not a zipper . I think you'll also find that most of the people concerned about keeping a spot secret or on the down low, are the LAST people on this earth that would leave their shiat everywhere.
RL
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Ill have the double double IPA please!
Hop Addict
"Green grass and high tides fer ever"
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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Loc: Stumpy acres
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Neuros-Could you please tell me how I offended people? As far as possitive input I do that on TECH questions!! Not on what river should I take all my friends and there friends and there friends too!!!
My point was if you think you have to drag someone that you offer out of a thread on the board to a river that is somewhat of a zipper to hook people into fish you are a moron.That should only offend you if you fall in that catagory!If you want to do that take em on the Sky or Cow..
I had a buddy that was plugging a spot and hooked a fish and had to pull down river a bit to land it. A guy came up behind him and asked "did you just hook a fish here" he said "yes" so the guy dropped anchor right where he was plugging as was gonna go back up and do it again...That person is a board member from here and is new to that river. You wanna talk about offend someone thats offending to me..
This is another reason only my good friends get river info out of me because I dont want someone pullin this $hit on me!!
TM
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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Neurosis
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Quote:
Hope I offended all you give me river info people!!
If you cant learn on your own what fun is it anyway?
TM
Dont get me wrong. Im not saying that you offended anyone, but it seems that was a point you were making in that post. I dont understand that logic. I understand the point your trying to make but why would you be glad to offend someone is all im saying. The point im trying to make, and im hoping I did, is it makes more sense to me that if im being stupid, explain to me why im being stupid rather than calling me stupid.
I need to quit posting in this thread. Im glad that it is here now though because it was a fast way to learn the do's and dont's.
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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Why that is stupid has been explained 10,000 times!!! 20 in just this thread!
If I need to explain you wouldnt understand anyway!
TM
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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cupo
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cookin' reels and killin' wading boots
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Reged: 12/26/01
Posts: 2334
Loc: speeding on 530
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Lunker, I probably shouldn't add anything else to this thread, but what the hell.
I wrote: 1. You have a busy life (by choice) and 2. You rarely get out to fish
You wrote: I, and most of the people I know, am very busy with career, kids soccer games, PTA, volunteer work that I do not have the time to do as much fishing as I used to.
I wrote: 3. You want people on this site to tell you when and where the fish are in
You wrote: I got on this site excited that I had finally found a site frequented by like minded people who wouldn't mind sharing information that was not dated or skewed to sell magazines.
I wrote: 4. You're pissed because nobody will hand you (and the world) their favorite spot via this message board
You wrote: Unfortunately, the impression I get is one of exclusion. It seems rife with disdain for anyone without the time or resources to fish many rivers and thereby glean his own information and then zip his lip.
I'm not trying to be all negative here. This is just the angle that some people are coming from when they don't want to share certain things. For the most part, people will give out a lot of info on techniques, gear, baits, etc. Lesser known locations are the only hush items.
If you ever plan on fishing the north end rivers, send me an email and I'll tell you what I know about recent action.
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This can't be healthy. All this fishing is really messing with my head.
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98043
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Washington Native
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Nerurosis,you remind me of my ex-wife.
she never quit when she was ahead either.
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I would rather be LUCKY then good any day
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Neurosis
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Haha. I figured that. I think t.m. is misunderstanding me but what the hell. I'm done talking about it. Thats a good example of why you never drink and try to type at the same time. I hate to see this turn Jerry Springer.
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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So Neo are you implying that I was drinking while posting?
You couldnt be farther from the truth!!!
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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Neurosis
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NO. I was talking about me. I have a feeling there were about 3 misunderstandings including that one. After the weekend I just had I dont feel like trying to explain. Just disregard anything ive posted after 1-30 and everything will be a-ok.
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Rocket J
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egg
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Reged: 01/20/03
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Loc: Belfair
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Quote:
I have a friend that is going to drag me down there next weekend. I'm wondering if anyone fishes there and if so could you give any kind of report. Im sure were going to go no matter what but It would be nice if there are some fish in there.
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Rocket J Squirrel
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lofty
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smolt
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Reged: 10/08/02
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Loc: Kent
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Timber Man, quit being so selfish. The rivers are for everyone to fish not just YOU. If you don't want to take people to your spots then great. But to call people names because they take someone out fishing is RIDICULOUS. Whether they found the spot or someone showed it to them they have just as much right be there as you. So if you think your little rivers are getting to much pressure then quit fishing them!
Lofty
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Lofty
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Rocket J
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egg
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Reged: 01/20/03
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Loc: Belfair
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I am a Wahington Native and have fished most of my life. I always make me wonder who these guys are that want to belive that their spot on the river, lake or any piece of water is theirs personally. Someone mentioned or showed them at least some of those spots. Are you going to keep it from your son or daughter also because it is only yours. Yes, I have seen alot of my favorite spots trashed by so-called sportsman, Then I learn that alot of them are not anything close to sportsman. If we cannot ask a question about a piece of water why is this forum here. I have yet to get to most holes on a non traveled path. Where would you suggest we go for information if not here? You guys remind me of the grumpy old men on the Cow or Green.
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Rocket J Squirrel
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Fishin Magician
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silver
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Reged: 06/28/02
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Loc: Forest Grove, Oregon
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I believe that the a couple of words that will help describe how to avoid this type of situation.........
1) Common Sense
2) Discretion
John
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Direct Impressions
"Most people talk about catching fish , Others just catch fish"
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RT
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Native Slab
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Reged: 10/09/00
Posts: 1239
Loc: NW OR
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Well put, John.
This is just my take on how this subject/thread is going: Small rivers and lesser known spots on bigger rivers are an emotional issue. Most of us, including myself, have expressed it's probably best not to discuss those places on a widely read public fishing forum; with popular spots being fair game for whatever. However, I see both misunderstandings occuring and some posts with unnecessary harsh baggage. I will use yours as an example Kevin (TM). I know you are among the most protective of the zippers, which is cool. But it would be better to explain the whole scenario about this without using harsh namecalling like "moron". That takes some of the effectiveness away from your actual message. Another thing ... you guys that think TM considers the zipper streams he fishes as "his", and not for others, by reading his posts are misunderstanding. His message, and some other's same message, isn't "don't fish there", it's don't advertise such spots publicly. And you are welcome to fish there IF you find the spot yourself, or someone gives you info about it in an email. Then keep mum about such spots that afford more solitude - which is getting harder to come by. I think it's that simple. No need to flame it up into an arguement.
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Steve Hanson
www.reeltruthfishing.com
(see 'RT's Insider Page there - occasionally)
NOTE: We've sold out of our inventory of books. Watch for the 2nd edition, sometime this year. Thanks! ... btw, there are still a few of the books left at the Guide Shop (Tillamook) and Bob's Outdoor (Longview).
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Desertdog
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Road Warrior
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When I first started visiting the "boards" I was somewhat puzzled and maybe even a little put off about the "Zipper" thing. Time and experience have shown me that it is the right thing for any number of reasons. By trying to be a contributing member on this board ( and I am one that has gotten lots more than I have given) I have learned about a lot of rivers. If the weather had cooperated I would have been on a new river this weekend. Hey Mods wanna moderate the weather a little. geez. 1600 mi. and did not even rig a pole. But I knew where to look for fishable water even then because of the people on this board. I know more about the rivers now than I ever did when I lived there. There are a lot of good guy that are more than willing to share info... just not for everyone with internet access to see. This seems really wise too me. Are there any true zippers out there to be discovered. All depends on you. To all who have shared information and offered boat rides.. THANK YOU.... 
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Grandpa to 9 boys 8 girls and 1 angel
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Timber
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Wet my Willie
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Lofty- To each his own just stay off MY river...
I guess I just talk to myself around here! I have yet to be understood...
TM
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All good things come to those who BAIT
If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch!!
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DanS
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Dawg
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Reged: 05/28/00
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Loc: Olympia, WA
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Quote:
If we cannot ask a question about a piece of water why is this forum here.
It's here so that you can get a lot of information how to effectively fish ANY piece of water. Good presentation is the name of the game.........the rest will follow. 
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Dude......where's your rod??
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RT
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Native Slab
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Reged: 10/09/00
Posts: 1239
Loc: NW OR
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And also for fun posts about good and/or funny fishing days, and related subjects. Good posts about equipment and boats too. And nice pics of fish and river scenery. Etc.
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Steve Hanson
www.reeltruthfishing.com
(see 'RT's Insider Page there - occasionally)
NOTE: We've sold out of our inventory of books. Watch for the 2nd edition, sometime this year. Thanks! ... btw, there are still a few of the books left at the Guide Shop (Tillamook) and Bob's Outdoor (Longview).
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Index Hooker
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to hot to trot
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Loc: hangin with the locals.
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just didn't feel right not seeing this on the front page 
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"Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
"Gettin' old ain't fer wimps!!"
In memory of Lonnie aka. Bigdogg2250
Ain't no Sunshine when she's gone
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Neurosis
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Loc: Seattle
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I was hoping it would go away.
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