fredaevans
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Saw this on a Scotland based fly fishing board. A new way (and better) 'slinky' sinker system. Tooooo Cool!
http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3902
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Fred A. Evans
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Greg_G
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That is pretty sick!
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WORKING ON MY PECKERWOOD IMAGE
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Southfork
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Fred,
Luv2fish and crew (including some wetsiders) came up with a sturgeon weight setup up that is lead free. It consists of a Keystone lite can filled with natural river rocks clipped to the slider on the main line. Keep in mind if your in heavier flows you need to use a tall boy can  . In really major flows use 40's........
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KEEP IT FUN!
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Chromeo
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it would be fun making those too southfork
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Mexican Standoff Prostaff
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FireFish
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If I recall, it was a blast,  right Mike...
FireFish Out... 
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Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Tony1831
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Seems like a decent idea Fred, but I'll stick to lead slinkies.
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<---- "Jihad this!"
Team 10%
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Bocephus for President 2012
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fredaevans
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Well someone gets the great the idea to 'ban lead'...... already been done with bird shot (if memory serves).
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Fred A. Evans
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NickVellios
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An ol' timer down on the Samish was using something like that one year. I am not sure what he had in it, I think it was birdshot. I didn't think too much about it, but it's a pretty good idea. Cheap and plentiful supplies if you are using sand!
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"There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are.. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."
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GutZ
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They look kind of like hand rolled, uhm, uh, cigarrettes, Yeah, thats it 
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It's better to have friends with boats!
**GutZ**
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kalamabama
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Check your fly!!
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you could even scent them
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Just wishing I was there
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Southfork
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Quote:
If I recall, it was a blast, right Mike...
FireFish Out...
Very much so and you guys are welcome up here anytime 
I've been pricing lead and I'm on Fred's side on this. We know lead isn't good but fisherman continually use it. I've been on the Little Salmon river in low flows and pulled buckets upon buckets of lead from the river. There has to be a better source of weight the is more earth friendly. It'll be many generations before they realize why the water/lead content is so high...
As far as using sand it washed out of the cans pretty quick not to mention sand isn't very heavy. From what I've seen most people are using to much weight to begin with. A tap every 15 seconds or so is good and you offering should be there. If your dragging your weight on the bottom your just going to lose it.
My two cents...
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ABUfreak
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i was always under the impression that lead was basically inert, and didn't cause harm sitting on the bottom. it's always been about the birds eating the stuff that was the problem, i thought.
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if we aren't supposed to eat fish, why are they made out of meat?
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Southfork
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Good point but if the river bottom is full of lead we are only increasing the chances of bad things 
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KEEP IT FUN!
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ABUfreak
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i've found myself using slinkies almost exclusively in the past year or two, and only carrying a bit of pencil lead as a backup.
i lose far less of them than i do with pencil lead, and i figure if they end up on the bottom the parachute cord prevents them from ending up inside of critters.
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if we aren't supposed to eat fish, why are they made out of meat?
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NickVellios
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Quote:
ABUfreak said:
i was always under the impression that lead was basically inert, and didn't cause harm sitting on the bottom. it's always been about the birds eating the stuff that was the problem, i thought.
It isn't inert. It oxidizes, flakes off, and gets into the ecosystem and drinking water. If it were inert, would people with lead pipes have to run their water for a while before drinking it?
Ever heard of a lead-acid battery? Not inert at all. Inert is when an element is non-reactive. examples: Helium, argon, neon, xenon, krypton, and radon, . Zinc, Copper, Chromium, Arsenic, and others are all metals that will build up in your system, accumulate, and eventually get you sick or kill you. And I know first hand, I have enough Zinc in my system to kill a man but I have built up some resistance over the years so I don't notice it until I get awhiff of zinc smoke which will send me into the worst flu-like symtoms anyone could feel, for about 24-48 hours. Most people wouldn't feel anything.
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"There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are.. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."
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Southfork
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In it's pure form lead is inert. Pure lead is extremely corrosion resistant and there isn't anything in a river could cause it to corrode or break down if it's pure. If there is you need to move.
Unfortunately it's close cousin is zinc and is a by product in the extraction of lead. Have you ever met anybody that welds galvanized pipe for a living. There as loopy as the painters that shoot poly paints without a mask.
The lead you buy at your favorite sporting goods shop is far from pure lead...
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KEEP IT FUN!
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NickVellios
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Quote:
Southfork said:Have you ever met anybody that welds galvanized pipe for a living. There as loopy as the painters that shoot poly paints without a mask.
I happen to know quite a bit about metals, metallurgy, and chemistry. I have welded hot dipped and sprayed steel stud framing members, and galvanized primer coated structural steel on ships for the past three years straight. No, it doesn't make you loopy. You'll be too sick to work before you get "loopy".
No, lead is not inert. Look up the definition of inert. No material will react with an inert material. I can name quite a few that will react with lead. Oxygen being one of them. Notice how when you cut fishing lead the lead inside is a lot shinier? The dull stuff on the outside isn't dirt, it's Pb2O3 (lead oxide). Anything that can be oxidized is NOT inert. Metals are NOT inert.
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"There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are.. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."
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NickVellios
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Inert materials have 8 electrons in their valance shell. Even those with 8 electrons are not necessarily considered inert.
Lead has 4 electrons in the outer valance shell, which means there are 4 spots to covalently bond with other atoms. Inert gasses have full valance shells and do not give up, lose, or share electrons (at least without some SERIOUS outside forces like nuclear reactions).
Carbon is one of the most versatile elements known because it has 4 electrons in the outer shell. This allows it to make very complex molecules with a wide range of geometric variances. Lead has the same number and has the same bonding capabilitites. NOT INERT
Why do you think Nickel is used in stainless steels? It has a full valance shell. But what do I know, I didn't take Metallurgy and Chemistry or anything like that...
And to be scientifically correct, there are NO inert elements, but the noble gasses I listed previously are as close as it gets.
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"There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are.. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."
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Southfork
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Quote:
NickVellios said:
Quote:
Southfork said:Have you ever met anybody that welds galvanized pipe for a living. There as loopy as the painters that shoot poly paints without a mask.
I happen to know quite a bit about metals, metallurgy, and chemistry. I have welded hot dipped and sprayed steel stud framing members, and galvanized primer coated structural steel on ships for the past three years straight. No, it doesn't make you loopy. You'll be too sick to work before you get "loopy".
No, lead is not inert. Look up the definition of inert. No material will react with an inert material. I can name quite a few that will react with lead. Oxygen being one of them. Notice how when you cut fishing lead the lead inside is a lot shinier? The dull stuff on the outside isn't dirt, it's Pb2O3 (lead oxide). Anything that can be oxidized is NOT inert. Metals are NOT inert.
Nick your way to easy to read....
I tell you what. If you want to speak so highly of yourself and start some metallurgy debate on the chemical composition of lead including the atomic structure, feel free to do so but please do it on IFISH! I'm sure you can generate a several page debate before your banned.
I respect Fred's post and am always interested in new ideas. I do believe there is an issue with the amount of lead laying in our river bottoms and it's only going to get worse for next generations unless we do something about it.
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KEEP IT FUN!
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NickVellios
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Quote:
Southfork said:
Quote:
NickVellios said:
Quote:
Southfork said:Have you ever met anybody that welds galvanized pipe for a living. There as loopy as the painters that shoot poly paints without a mask.
I happen to know quite a bit about metals, metallurgy, and chemistry. I have welded hot dipped and sprayed steel stud framing members, and galvanized primer coated structural steel on ships for the past three years straight. No, it doesn't make you loopy. You'll be too sick to work before you get "loopy".
No, lead is not inert. Look up the definition of inert. No material will react with an inert material. I can name quite a few that will react with lead. Oxygen being one of them. Notice how when you cut fishing lead the lead inside is a lot shinier? The dull stuff on the outside isn't dirt, it's Pb2O3 (lead oxide). Anything that can be oxidized is NOT inert. Metals are NOT inert.
Nick your way to easy to read....
I tell you what. If you want to speak so highly of yourself and start some metallurgy debate on the chemical composition of lead including the atomic structure, feel free to do so but please do it on IFISH! I'm sure you can generate a several page debate before your banned.
I respect Fred's post and am always interested in new ideas. I do believe there is an issue with the amount of lead laying in our river bottoms and it's only going to get worse for next generations unless we do something about it.
I am just trying to prevent bullshit from being sewn into reality. I am very devoted to wildlife conservation and take a strong interest in limnology and related sciences so when I hear somebody stating more crap that only covers up a big, or potential problem, I am not going to let thousands of people read it and believe it because Joe Tar heel says that's the way it is. But hey, whatever you say, sure, you are right. 
Have fun, I am done. Not like it will make a differences anyways. It's only our health and our backyards, right?
Maybe Gooose will chime in. He iz en edumicatured feller' and biologist.
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"There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are.. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."
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NickVellios
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And one more thing, about your comment regarding "If there is something in the river that causes it to corrode or breakdown, you need to move".
Look at the PH level of the rainfall in the PNW (seriously, look it up, it's about as acidic as black coffee), then consider how much water rushes past that lead and how many rocks and bits of sand and gravel pound it all day long.
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"There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are.. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."
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MikalBell
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I thought you were done?
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"Should of been here yesterday"
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MikalBell
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As long as we are being technical, poeple dont get water from "Lead" pipes. Maybe you were thinking of Galvanized steel pipes. Lead was used for drain pipes in the past and I sure hope people are not drinking from those. I also just want to get things straight so nobody here runs around thinking they may be drinking from lead pipes when in fact all they are flushing out is fairly non toxic rust. I am a plumber and I know what I am talking about! 
In all seriousness I think its awesome that you are very knowledgable about your metals and or are good at reading wikipedia but maybe instead of playing moral police and using that much energy to tell someone what they dont know you could use your knowlegde to give some examples of what metal or material you think would make a good substitute for lead. I am with you here and I agree that we should do what we can to protect the environment but we got way off track from what the post was originally imposed for. Until we come up with something lead will remain the norm.
The sandbag idea is clever but I cannot see it working to well fishing for some spooky Steelhead as they appear to be three to five times the size of slinkies I typically use. I have been using some Steel and also brass beads to make jigs with but they are just not nearly as heavy as lead is. Iron could be a good choice, still not as dense as lead but some iron beads srtung on some dacrom could make a good drifting wieght. Not to mention once lost it would rust away to nothing in no time at all. However, rust may not be the best thing to wash over some fresh redd.??? We are gonna have to come up with something soon. I think we are not too far from a ban on lead in freshwater.
And while we are all getting tickets for using it the U.S. Navy will still be cruising around in huge ships coated in lead based deck paint. Go figure.
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"Should of been here yesterday"
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NickVellios
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Mikal, ya, I get carried away. I can never stop lol  But I will refrain from it now. Good points you made. I am not a plumber, that is why it is good to have people from all trades, education levels, and experience contribute to the conversation. Wikipedia plays no part in my posts btw.
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"There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are.. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."
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Luke_the_Drifter
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Don't worry about Southfork, Nick. He's just pissed because you called him on his bullsh*t with fact.
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"There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live."
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Southfork
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I'm far from pissed. I don't let any welders/metallurgist/welding engineers get to me especially on the internet. I deal with several everyday. I'm far from an expert on anything and will be the first to admit it.
Luke put your scab picking hat away....
Now back on topic...
I've been shopping for Sturgeon lead and the price is outrageous! $6.50 for a 10oz ball  I'm very close to just wrapping an appropriate sized river rock in some mesh found at any fabric store. Now I'm talking drop shotting it from a boat not casting it. Mojo's railroad spikes would work to if I could find any.
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KEEP IT FUN!
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Luke_the_Drifter
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Quote:
Southfork said:
I'm far from pissed. I don't let any welders/metallurgist/welding engineers get to me especially on the internet. I deal with several everyday. I'm far from an expert on anything and |
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