Black_Ghost
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Thick Tail
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Its time to buy some more, have been using on a limited basis the Rio Fluor Flex Plus any body have any other preferences I should consider before the big purchase is made ?
BG
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"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
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fredaevans
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Thick Tail
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Well the 'leader' stuff is pricie as all get out. Too catch fishermen?
I've been tieing up straight F/C leaders for some time now useing straight F/C line (the butt section is still 25-30# maxima main line)to build leaders, and it's worked out well. You can buy a couple hundred yards of 'line' for the price of a small spool of 'leader material.'
Fish don't seem to know the difference. Also amazing just how strong 8# tippet made from this stuff really is. Decked/released a king a couple of days ago that would have clocked in at just under 25#.
fae
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Fred A. Evans
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Marty
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redneck yachter
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Fred what brand are you using? The regular spools are normally a fluouro coated line.
And how are your knots holding up?
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Marty
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Steelheader69
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I've found that with FC you must REALLY lubricate the knots. You have to heavily spit on them before you cinch them down. I don't use it alot, but found that the slightest heat will ruin the holding power.
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TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Project Healing Waters
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cupo
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Most people hate it, but I use 8lb Vanish when the water is really clear. I've had 0 problems with it breaking on steelhead, humpies, or silvers.
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This can't be healthy. All this fishing is really messing with my head.
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BobK
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Here in the Great Lakes, we often fish in below freezing (sometimes below zero) weather. Vanish (Berkley's brand) is universally hated - it has no knot strength in cold temperatures (at least that is the experience here!)
Jerry is right - you do need to wet the knots well, and pull 'em tight with a jerk. Friction is high with fluoro, and it takes a good technique.
But the advantages in abrasion resistance, faster sink rate and less visibility pays dividends in fish. That's why I use it.
BobK 
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Black_Ghost
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Thick Tail
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Yes I know all about the FC knot problems lost about 6 steelies last year due to poor knots I think thats why I am not sold on it. But maybe it was my knot tying, I always wet them well but maybe I am using the wrong knots.
What knots is every one using to:
1: Link FC to butt section of maxima
2. To the fly
BG
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"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
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BobK
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Knots I use for tippets:
For tippet to leader:
Either blood knot (6 turns of each) or "triple surgeon" knot (sometimes, "quad" or more depending on lb. test.).
For tippet to fly: Clinch, improved clinch, or uni knot. (Six turns minimum!)
Wet 'em well. Pull tight with a "jerk".
I swear by fluoro now. But remember THIS:
I always TEST the knot for strength - just put the hook in a line guide on the butt section of your rod, and PULL it - In a surprising number of times when the leader slips and the hook becomes untied, even on a "perfectly" tied knot! (This is true of NYLON, too!) I have made a habit of this for years - amazing how many times knots are not as perfect as we think, even though we are careful tying 'em!
BobK
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Black_Ghost
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Thick Tail
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I used triple or quad surgeons for tippet to leader - FC.
Improved clinch, trilene or duncan loop to fly. (Not doing 6 turns though, 4-5 usually)
Thanks will start practiving my fluor knots BEFORE I AM ON THE RIVER.
Also starting to hear not good things about Sea Guar fluor, guess I will stick with Rio Fluor Flex Plus unless some one has an alternative. All my fly shop has is the Rio at this time anyway. Will be stopping there on Friday PM before football game to purchase some.
BG
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"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
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Marty
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I am using the sea guar flouro on leaders in a limited basis. Interesting point on the "jerk" to tighten.. impulse the knot?
I do always make sure its wet before clinching but hadn't heard to Jerk the knot. Improved clinch knot user here.
Oh did I mention I hate vanish  ... couldn't get any reliablity out of it on my knots. Cupo what knots you using?
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Marty
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Ash
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I've been using 4lb vanish for tippet material for a couple months, I really like it. I use Polomar and Turle knots though...
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2 Forks is Confusing, 3 Forks makes for Excitment
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Ash
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sorry forgot to mention, if you look inside the Vanish box Berkley recomends the "Trilene Knot" for use with their FC lines... It looks like a double clinch to me.
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2 Forks is Confusing, 3 Forks makes for Excitment
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Steelheader69
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I've only used the Cabela's brand. Was sent a free spool of their brand when it first came out. Came with an order I had. Worked great for summerruns when water was clear. But had to work on the friction when closing knots.
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TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Project Healing Waters
CampChef Prostaffer
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fredaevans
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for leaders is Silver Thread. Don't know who the manufacture is of the line but it's tough as nails. I'm 99% as spey rod user so I'll use a 25-30# butt section of Maxima main line for this section, the rest is scaled down to the tippet size of the F/C main line.
Keith Jackson, a e mail correspondent on another board and an out door mag. writer, sent me several spools of the stuff to try. Zero complaits (sp?) on it's performance. Have also sent out a doz. or more of my leaders of this material and same results.
To connect the leader sections I use a triple surg. knot. Key here is if the knot comes out looking like a 'ball,' you've screwed up the connection. Cut it out and do it again. The knot should end up looking like a 'blood knot'to assure you've 'done it right.'
fae
Should have added: A large percentage of the 'very good'flyrodders down here use maxima main line for their leader material(s). They may use a 'regular' tippet material for the last connection, but the stiffer 'main line'material allows for a better roll out of the leader.
"Oh did I mention I hate vanish?'" Seen the same statement in/on Board print on several occations; the product doesn't appear to have a large following.
fae
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Fred A. Evans
Edited by fredaevans (10/01/03 10:01 PM)
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Marty
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Thanks fred.. I ordered the cabelas flouro and they sent seaguar.. I suspect thats whos making the flouro for them. Haven't tried the Silver thread, but will keep it in mind on the next go round.
Did I mention I am headed to the skeena system 
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Marty
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oldman
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A Since this thread is about Florocarbon leaders I though that I would ask this question. I just got hooked up with a Spey Rod,Reel,and Line. And what I'm trying to learn is what is used for leaders coming from the butt that is tied to the end of the line. I know about trout leaders but when fishing with a spey rod are they different.
Jim
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fredaevans
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typically use Maxima main line from top to tippet. Two basic reasons: can't get any less expensive, and (the real reason) is it's stiff even down to 6-8 # material.
The stiffness is necessary to transfer the energy from the cast out/down to the fly. Limp leader material will fold up like wet newspaper on you. If you're 'dry lining' you'll probably have at least a 12-18 foot long leader, the softer material will 'float back' and wrap itself around the line.
Stiffer main line (Maxima, anyway)doesn't have this tendency. Should add, the Silver Thread leaders I use are good out to about 15 foot, then you begin to have problems .. especially if you're useing a two fly set up.
fae
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Fred A. Evans
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oldman
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dual red striper
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Well since I'm new to it I don't think thay I'm going to use two flies as trying to launch one is hard enough. Oh, I'm also going to have a lesson or two to get me going in the right direction. But thank you for the help. So do you build a tapered leader or just run it in sections.
I have a friend that Spey fishes and I notice that his fly leader seems to do that,pile up at the business end.
Jim
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fredaevans
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leaders. Most have 12" of this 16" of that and are a royal pain in the butt to tie. I stick to a "kiss" program. Each section of the leader (5) will be approx. 3 foot long for leaders 'tipping out' at 10#. Measurments are very specific here .... :>) .... I just pull out a run of line from the middle of my chest to the tip of the fingers ... 3' give or take an inch. End leader is about 15 foot long. Want an 18 foot leader ... ADD A SECTION!!, want a 12 foot leader, cut the runs down to 2.5 foot each.
For leaders of 6-8 pounds I will go to 6 sections so the taper is a little more dramatic. Each run here will be closer to 18 inches to 24 inches long. Sections are connected together with a triple surg. (aka water) knot.
fae
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Fred A. Evans
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BobK
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Good advice, Fred! I hate the directions, use 8 inches of this, 8 inches of this.... I think only technical idiots write and follow those. Fred's right - make longer sections, heavier and stiffer at the top (thicker) section, but more supple in the tippet. These turn over beautifully.
Generally, the darn "knotless tapered" leaders that you buy are one piece, constantly tapering from end to end. The whole thing is of the same stiffness. That's why most of us tie 'em ourselves (plus the fact that we are "cheap", or as Hal would say, "economically prudent".)
BobK
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Black_Ghost
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Thick Tail
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KISS my MO also for leaders. But Fred I am very surprised at the length of leaders you are using. I am normally no more than 7-8 feet in length and when the water is highly stained down to 3-4 feet. That with my heavy sink tip and heavily weighted nymph or streamer gets down fairly quick but I am not fishing really deep holes mostly runs no more 6-10 feet deep many times 4-6 feet deep.
BG
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"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
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williegunn
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king
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I tend to agree what is the point of sinking your line down 20 ft if the fly is floating 15 ft above it on a great long leader.
I use Fred's type set up for " greased line" work but when fishing a tip I have about 3ft of 15 lb maxima loped to the end of the fly line.
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Malcolm
<")////<
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Black_Ghost
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Thick Tail
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Malcolm,
How do they get so detailed salmon and sea trout reports over there in the local papers telling who caught what and on what type of fly etc. See link below.
Are there newspaper reporters covering the salmon and sea trout fishing.
Nothing like this detail over here in the states on fishing results. I could just see them interviewing me on my days catch let alone Fred or BobK. Definitely would not want my tired looking face in any newspapers after hard days steelheading.
LOL
BG
http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/0200sport/7000digest/content_objectid=13472150_method=full_siteid=50081_headline=-Angling--Bywell-salmon-catches-on-rise-name_page.html
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"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
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williegunn
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king
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There was a gentleman who wrote the angling repoerts as a part time job, whenever he heard of a good catch/ large fish. he penned an article and was paid £0.01 a word or some such. It was amazing what he could come up with week after week. He would wander up to you when you were fishing and ask if anything was happening, a casual mention that Bob or Jim had one suddenly became a ten pound artiicle for him. Everyone was happy, the newspaper sold papers, the writer got his beer money, the angler his week of fame. Win win.
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Malcolm
<")////<
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williegunn
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king
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What amazes me is how someone in the great lakes finds them
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Malcolm
<")////<
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Black_Ghost
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Thick Tail
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I have my world wide fly fishing news search strings almost perfected. Remember "Information itself is power' - Francis Bacon - 1600."
BG
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"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
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williegunn
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king
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Was Francis Bacon still alive at 4 o clock?
Willie Gunn 19:45
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Malcolm
<")////<
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Steelheader69
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Nooch Diver and Camp Cook
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LOL Malcolm. Hmmmmm, think he was well decayed by 4 pm here.
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TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Project Healing Waters
CampChef Prostaffer
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BobK
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Thick Tail
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Actually, searching the 'net for obscure news items is Hal's way of 'Killing time" at work..... and he gets PAID while doing it.
Then he has the unmitigated gall to criticize us poor retired folk!
Too much spare time....Way, way too much spare time......
BobK 
Edited by BobK (10/03/03 02:09 PM)
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oldman
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dual red striper
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Who has too much spare time I don't. All my time is taken up from fishing. If I had any more spare time I could sit in from of this stupid screen and type more words into it.
One old grouch 
Jim
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