pez
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OK, so now that wolves have been delisted, when do we get to buy tags? Anybody got the dirt from Idaho F&G?
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skyriver
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Probabally about 5-10 years down the road after the pro wolfers finally loose all there law suits and appeals. I am afraid this will be drawn out for years. It least the delisting was a step in the right direction.
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pez
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hobo
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It may be drawn out a bit, but the writing's on the wall now. I really do believe I'll be carrying a wolf tag to elk camp in 2009.
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TheTone
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Jack
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The earliest possible would be this fall. That will of course be dependant upon what becomes of the lawsuits being filed to stop delisting. On IDFG's side of things everything is pretty much ready to go. The state management plan is basically done as to how the state will handle wolves once they have full control. I'm pretty sure the entire wolf management plan is available on the IDFG website.
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gemstatejake
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I'd say it'll be awhile. It'll be interesting to see how IDFG handles harvest. I know when it wes first being discussed, They were thinking of classifying them as a "trophy" animal, Like moose, sheep, and goats. In other words very limited opportunity. but the recent draft indicates they'll be managed like black bears and mountain lions which are largly over the counter tags with a kill quota.
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Idahosteelheader
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I have a good friend in the department and he is saying that the wolves will be treated as bears and lions with a quota, though the numbers are not what you would figure, they are low. As for lawsuits they are folding like ducks from the sky, 1 by 1. The chances of a wolf season this year is still feizable but dont bite your tongue. I project that opening of rifle season '09 you will be able to buy tags.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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clucknmoan
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The quota set on May 2nd for 2008 was 328 animals, that's quite a few considering the estamated population of just over 1000.
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Mojo
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My guess is 80% cance we'll be shooting the big dogs this fall. I hear there are several groups holding out last minute suits in hope of an injunction, but the courts here usually see through that crapola...
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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clucknmoan
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What happened to the last one in Montana a couple weeks ago? The last quote I heard from the judge was that he had serious reservations about Wyomings "management plan" (shoot on site). And because of that he was going to take a close look the entire delisting situation. Two of them ran 5 elk through the fence 2 weeks ago during the day (a black and a grey), then another elk hit the fence 2 nights later, gotta assume it was the same situation. I can't wait, in fact I just put an offer on a long range dog gun.
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Mojo
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I figure my .280 with 150 grain bullets ought to do the job... 
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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Idahosteelheader
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Yes the quota was set at 328 but you watch the huggers will get it lowered, and 1000 wolf in the state my a$$. There were more wolves in the state than that before they transplanted them cross bred pieces of trash.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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Mojo
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Way to discredit yourself. If you want to make broad statements, you ought to stick close to the facts. Frankly I know the 2 poor bastards that are saddled with managing these things for IDF&G, and their numbers are pretty damn close to spot on. If you want to talk to them, I can arrange it.
The pre-wolf stocking program numbers were in the low dozens in extreme north Idaho, mostly migrants from Canada - and a few pairs in the wilderness areas.
So, what do you claim the actual numbers are? More importantly, how did you come by these numbers?
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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Idahosteelheader
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I just really find it hard to beleive that they had counted every wolf in the state, just because they didnt see them doesnt mean that they werent there. My uncle, grandfather and I used to pack in by red fish lake and elk hunt every year, and we heard wolves most every night every year. Then by canada we had seen a few there. Just hard for me to believe. Not discrediting myself just stating my feelings.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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Mojo
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Interestingly enough the IDF&G was forced to spend 5 years doing a comprehensive wolf census prior to the "re-introduction" (an ESA requirement). They had 3 teams of PROFESSIONAL wolf biologist types scouring the area from Atlanta to Sun Valley over to the Warm Lake area and north to Salmon. 5 years and they only saw evidence of 4 confirmed wolves.
You say prior to "re-introduction"..."My uncle, grandfather and I used to pack in by red fish lake and elk hunt every year, and we heard wolves most every night every year." I believe you heard 'em, but only in the last 5 years or so. Not before the "re-introduction".
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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clucknmoan
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I spent almost every summer in the area you are describing, I grew up and still live very close to there. I'm not going to say there weren't wolves there prior to the planting, but they were extremely few and far between. My gandfather and his brothers grew up there as well, hunted cats for a living most of their lives, and they had only found a handful of tracks, and heard about the same amount in the area in 70 years and obviously most of those were 50 years ago until recent.
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Idahosteelheader
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Ok I could be wrong I;m just one that didnt agree 100% with the planning. Dont take what I say and get all spun up its just my opionan and just like everyone their opioans aren't always right or true. Like I said i find it hard to believe. As I look back itwas more than 5 years ago that we were packing in there being that I have been out of state for more than 6 years, It was probably more like 10 or twelve years ago.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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wageslave
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As Mojo said, wolves have been in Idaho for a long time. In 1979 and 80 I spent alot of nights on the North Fork in a F&G cabin at 4th of July Creek. My buddy was working for them and stayed there. He had a guest both summers, working for the F&G also, that was a wolf study tech. The Dept. knew then that there were wolves on the North Fork, but there weren't many. Not sure, as it was a long time ago, but I as I remember it, his claim was that those wolves were coming over from Montana. I don't think the Dept. would have acknowledged it at the time, but they knew of wolves in this area long ago.
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"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra
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gemstatejake
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Wolves have been here right along. prior to reintroduction they were obviously much less common than they are now. they lived in the areas they COULD live in and avoid conflict with man.....Everything I just stated regarding wolves applys to grizzlys as well other than the reintroduction part which has'nt happened. yet.
Joe...You say you know the two fish and gamers managing these critters...What makes you so certain thier numbers are accurate? I'm not saying they're not right,(but I do have doubts) but the country these things now occupy is vast and growing. Let me emphasize VAST. And basically impossible to monitor accurately. Fish and game will often use "qualifiers" to arrive at their conclusions regarding game populations. And I'll say point blank that some of the past counts they've done for other species (deer, elk, etc) were not accurate IMO.
If i were a betting man, I'd lay money on there being a damn site more than 1000. country is to huge and evidence of wolf activity is way to easy to find these days. One mans opinion.
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Idahosteelheader
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You said it the way that I meant to. They use tracking devices to track them know and count just the tagged and those around them once sighted.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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Mojo
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Idahosteelheader, you are wrong. Not all wolves that are counted are collared or running with collared animals. Check up on the bluebunch Pack. No collared animals left after the F&G shot ALL of them. Pack re-established and now numbers 7 animals. There are tons of guys reporting every wolf siting to the F&G, (as they request from each of us sportsmen). They have teams out in the field every day looking for wolves. Each wolf kill of domestic animals is documented and the offending animal is hunted, with approximatley a 60% success rate (last I checked). That isn't too bad in this vast country. Wolf pascks don't hibernate, and winter surveys are actually quite accurate. Wolf packs travel in a unique patter which is traceable in the snow from the air. Another way they are tracked.
Jake, I know these guys, and they aren't bullshitters. They claim the numbers range from something like 897 to 1173. Remember those numbers change daily due to animals migrating into Montana and Yellowstone, deaths, and births. They are estimates, but based on proven models. Sometimes these models fail due to disease infestations, and other reasons, but they play out over time.
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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Idahosteelheader
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Quote:
Mojo said:
Sometimes these models fail due to disease infestations, and other reasons, but they play out over time.
Just as they did before and the studies say there were only a few. what makes you or the fish and wildlife think that they wont die again? Its said that these animals were poached to near extinction....well maybe there is a reason for this.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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Idahosteelheader
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Mojo do you watch the news? Do you read the paper? Do you believe everything that you hear? Just because your two buddies say all this doesnt mean that its a fact. I truely beleive that this is what they have been told and its what they told you. Yes the numbers of wolves wasnt what it was 200 years ago, but hell the numbers of deer and elk aint the same that they were 200 years ago either, although they arent pushing extintion. I just dont beleive much of anything that this government puts on paper. I truely beleive that a lot of stuff is covered up for the mighty dollar. The state got a mass of money for this transplant. I do beleive that the proper steps are being taken to control the population. I now a rancher outside of mccall that had a few head of cattle killed and yes the authortizies disposed of the animal and the ranch was slightly remebursed for his loss. Im not here to argue this with no one. I just dont believe that the complete story is out nor will it be.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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Mojo
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Quote:
Idahosteelheader said:
I truely beleive that a lot of stuff is covered up for the mighty dollar. The state got a mass of money for this transplant. I do beleive that the proper steps are being taken to control the population. I now a rancher outside of mccall that had a few head of cattle killed and yes the authortizies disposed of the animal and the ranch was slightly remebursed for his loss. Im not here to argue this with no one. I just dont believe that the complete story is out nor will it be.
The state of Idaho got nothing for the transplant. The Feds mandated it happen, told Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana to manage them, and they didn't sheel out any cash. You ever hear the term "unfunded federal mandate"? That is one of the reasons the F&G has such heartburn with managing these critters. There is so much mis-information being pushed out about wolves by people on both sides of the isse, that it really makes it hard to find out the truth.
What is your rancher buddy's name. I know a lot of people in the New Meadows area, and I know of 2 wolf/cow predation situations up there. Bot of them were the old Blue Bunch pack, and they were all killed. The pack has re-established (naturally) as the "new Blue Bunch pack" and is now around 7 animals. The ranchers recieved reparations for 3 generations of offspring, which is a GREAT deal for them, since in reality all those animals were headed for the sale yard that year.
You telling me these guys are told what teh numbers are is funny. These are the guys that go out and do the surveys. They fly the back country, helecopter in and hike, send teams of people out and count wolves. THey are the guys that compile the numberes.
How many of you have reported wolf activity to the F&G? They ask everyone that sees one or hears them to report the sighting. If EVERYONE did that, I'm sure the numbers would be more accurate.
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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gemstatejake
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Never reported anything I've seen but did'nt realize F&G requested people to do so........You're right about the misinformation being tossed around by both extremes....The truth lies somewhere in the middle....It's just another reason I tend to believe what I see with my own two eyes and what common sense tells me. This past season just about evey time I went out on scouting or hunting trips I found wolf sign. In some places it was abundant. I'm talking from south central to north Idaho and several places in between. There defineatly around and I certainly feel it's time to start controlling the population.
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Mojo
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I agree completely Jake. That's why I'll be buying a tag.
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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clucknmoan
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I'll do the scouting and homework, anyone that wants to shoot one (legally OF COURSE) can get ahold of me and I will be glad to take the time, it's for a good cause.
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Idahosteelheader
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Mojo I couldnt agree more with you. There is alot of hear say on this topic, where does one make a dision on what to believe. I try to find a center line but some of it is a bit far fetched.
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Always practice C&R on native steelhead.
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Mojo
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I figure the closer to the source of information you get, the more accurate it is. If I see it with my own 2 eyes, I guess that is as good as it gets.
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Tight Lines,
Mojo
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Idahosteelheader
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