AuntyM
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SB 5329, titled AN ACT Relating to providing assistance to spay and neuter certain animals, has been introduced and scheduled for a public hearing by the Senate Committee on Agriculture & Rural Economic Development.
Date and Time: 01/27/2009 1:30PM (Subject to change by the Legislature.)
Location: J.A. Cherberg Building, Senate Hearing Rm 3, Olympia, WA
The Office of Financial Management has identified this bill as requiring a ten-year projection of increased cost to the taxpayers or affected feepayers.
Ten-year projection:
Year Spay/Neuter Assistance Account
2010 $ 5,578,000
2011 11,115,000
2012 11,155,000
2013 11,155,000
2014 11,155,000
2015 11,155,000
2016 11,155,000
2017 11,155,000
2018 11,155,000
2019 11,155,000
Total: $ 105,613,000
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KIRO reported this will add .01 to a can of pet food or $3.00 per bag. This will provide spay/neuter services to low income people and supposedly help reduce costs at animal shelters.
And it will cost me $18 more per month.
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NickVellios
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As an animal lover, I think this is a good idea, but the tax is a bit high. $1 a bag wouldn't be too bad. The good I see stemming from this is it would eventually cut costs for the state's animal control, state/county shelters, and allow the donations that were going to animal shelters to be distributed to other animal related non-profits in need of assistance, hopefully some of it to CCA and Fish First.
No matter what you do or say to convince people, they are still going to let their animals breed out of control. Low income pet owners are the biggest contributor to pet overpopulation and overcrowded animal shelters. It is a problem growing at an exponential rate, and I can see the problem shrink at an exponential rate if this comes into effect. $18/m extra is a lot of money when you consider the annual costs for owning pets. Food, vet bills, medicine, toys, grooming etc... I think pet owners who spay and neuter their animals should get most of that money returned to them during tax season.
If the pet overbreeding is controlled, there will be less animal control officers needed. Statewide, just a few cutbacks on employees would be a big cut in city/county/state expenses. Assuming the average pay for those working with animal control was $40,000 ($45,000 with benefits), and if there were only a dozen layoffs, that is $540,000 a year saved. The more the problem is reduced, the less need for animal control and this reduction in costs would increase annually.
Another idea is to reduce the tax and spread it evenly over other pet-related costs such as toys, otc medicine, shampoos & other grooming supplies. Food is an absolute necessity and if someone can't afford the upkeep because of the tax, then there is another pet in a shelter. Toys can be handmade, and owners can groom pets with items intended for people. Baby shampoo is safe for dogs and human brushes would work for most grooming needs. That will allow those who are falling on hard times to still be able to afford the necessities a pet needs. Most people will still purchase products targeted specifically for pets, but the option to only pay a small tax on food would be there for those who can't afford it.
That's my take on it.
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AuntyM
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I don't agree with your assumptions Nick.
Should I pay higher registration fees on my car to reduce a lower income person's registration fees? I thought you were against socialism and tax increases?
Pet food has already gone up 25% in the last year.
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Mojo
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Locally, it costs 8 bucks to register a dog if he/she is spayed/neutered. 35 bucks if they are intact. I say follow a similar fee scale, and take that extra money and use some to pay for this socialized animal fixing program.
Forcing people that are responsible animal owners to pay for the fixing of other peoples pets is rediculous.
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NickVellios
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I am not for socialism and tax increases as a whole, but I believe this bill has the potential to reduce state expenses in the long run.
I don't feel I should be forced to pay for anybody's pet OR car expenses, and I did say the amount taxed is ridiculous. What I was saying is based on the hypothetical situation that this is inevitably going to be passed anyways. I was merely giving some alternative sources to generate the funds and to spread them out. I was also giving a different take on how good could come of this in the long run. At first glance it sounds like a socialistic proposal, but if it is passed and it works, it could be money back in our pockets.
That's why I underlined the word 'idea' when I said it was a good idea. But that goes for many bills, and also is the reason why so many countries tried communism, but we all know how well THAT works.
At this point, I disagree with it. Until I see a detailed laid out plan for what we will gain (as a state and taxpayers) from this in the future, I will continue to disagree with it.
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Mojo
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I was just proposing another way to generate the funds.
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Quillback
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The poor will have neutered pets but won't be able to afford to feed them because of this tax. Next tax increase will be for food stamps for pets, then we'll see another tax increase to provide free health insurance to all pets belonging to low income families, then we'll see a tax increase to..
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Mojo
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I still think the whole thing is stupid.
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BorntoFish
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oh geez, i can see where this is all going.....long lines of hungry dogs and cats outside the soup kitchens.  
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AuntyM
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Or at my GF's pet shop. She's had numerous people come in asking if she could spare some free food. She's had others wanting her to take their pets and find them good homes because they couldn't afford food anymore. They don't want to take them to a shelter for fear of seeing them put down.
Making food MORE expensive does what again???
Looks more like PORK for veterinarians to me. A whole lot of these people think they should earn what a doctor or lawyer does, and they charge accordingly.
Oh wait... one of my state reps IS a Vet. Hmmm...
Why don't they lower their fees if they care so much about pet over-population?
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
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CHINOOK73
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Can't feed 'em, Don't breed 'em. Not only does it apply to people, but now to pets.
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BobK
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Politicians know best how to screw you! You voted 'em IN, now just try to get RID of 'em!
All Politicians are CROOKS! And now, it's "who will GIVE me the MOST FREE STUFF!" Sorry, but those are my feelings!
BobK  
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NickVellios
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Quote:
BobK said:
Politicians know best how to screw you! You voted 'em IN
Really? I don't recall my vote matching up with the elected.
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
Half-Time Student
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AuntyM
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Nick, you're young with a lot of good years ahead of you. Time for you to adjust to the mentality of being a hated minority whose guy rarely wins.
It's going to be FUBAR and BOHICA for many moons I'm afraid.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
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Southfork
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Quote:
BorntoFish said:
oh geez, i can see where this is all going.....long lines of hungry dogs and cats outside the soup kitchens.
Now that's funny!
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NickVellios
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
Nick, you're young with a lot of good years ahead of you. Time for you to adjust to the mentality of being a hated minority whose guy rarely wins.
It's going to be FUBAR and BOHICA for many moons I'm afraid.
I've been well adjusted for a looooong time. But don't say I voted him in if I didn't.
--------------------
Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
Half-Time Student
Full-Time Employed
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I miss fishing.....
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Lead_Bouncer
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Quote:
NickVellios said:
As an animal lover, I think this is a good idea, but the tax is a bit high. $1 a bag wouldn't be too bad. The good I see stemming from this is it would eventually cut costs for the state's animal control, state/county shelters, and allow the donations that were going to animal shelters to be distributed to other animal related non-profits in need of assistance, hopefully some of it to CCA and Fish First.
No matter what you do or say to convince people, they are still going to let their animals breed out of control. Low income pet owners are the biggest contributor to pet overpopulation and overcrowded animal shelters. It is a problem growing at an exponential rate, and I can see the problem shrink at an exponential rate if this comes into effect. $18/m extra is a lot of money when you consider the annual costs for owning pets. Food, vet bills, medicine, toys, grooming etc... I think pet owners who spay and neuter their animals should get most of that money returned to them during tax season.
If the pet overbreeding is controlled, there will be less animal control officers needed. Statewide, just a few cutbacks on employees would be a big cut in city/county/state expenses. Assuming the average pay for those working with animal control was $40,000 ($45,000 with benefits), and if there were only a dozen layoffs, that is $540,000 a year saved. The more the problem is reduced, the less need for animal control and this reduction in costs would increase annually.
Another idea is to reduce the tax and spread it evenly over other pet-related costs such as toys, otc medicine, shampoos & other grooming supplies. Food is an absolute necessity and if someone can't afford the upkeep because of the tax, then there is another pet in a shelter. Toys can be handmade, and owners can groom pets with items intended for people. Baby shampoo is safe for dogs and human brushes would work for most grooming needs. That will allow those who are falling on hard times to still be able to afford the necessities a pet needs. Most people will still purchase products targeted specifically for pets, but the option to only pay a small tax on food would be there for those who can't afford it.
That's my take on it.
cca and FF wont get a dime. One of the reasons that homeless people and poor people get dogs is for burglars. They dont license their dogs, so they probably wont want to risk getting caught. I know a guy who took his dog to the park in the morning. The dog police were waiting for him. At every turn, someone is giving people the reason not to take responsibility for their actions. The rest of us get to pay for it.
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NickVellios
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I was saying that if shelters didn't require as much donations, it could go to other sources. HOPEFULLY some would go to places that would benefit us outdoor sportsmen.
--------------------
Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
Half-Time Student
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I miss fishing.....
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CHINOOK73
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Nick, how many dogs and cats do you have?
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AuntyM
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I talked to my GF yesterday. She has talked to her suppliers. If this is passed, she's going to have to stop carrying dog and cat food in her shop altogether. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back.
EXTREMELY bad for a small business owner. She was already struggling month to month in this business climate. She employs 4 people that depend on her and these FOOLS in Olympia just don't get it.
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TeXMojo
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Quote:
Quillback said:
The poor will have neutered pets but won't be able to afford to feed them because of this tax. Next tax increase will be for food stamps for pets, then we'll see another tax increase to provide free health insurance to all pets belonging to low income families, then we'll see a tax increase to..
IF this passes, they should let us carry our pets as exemptions also. LOL
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TeXMojo
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
Or at my GF's pet shop. She's had numerous people come in asking if she could spare some free food. She's had others wanting her to take their pets and find them good homes because they couldn't afford food anymore. They don't want to take them to a shelter for fear of seeing them put down.
Making food MORE expensive does what again???
Looks more like PORK for veterinarians to me. A whole lot of these people think they should earn what a doctor or lawyer does, and they charge accordingly.
Oh wait... one of my state reps IS a Vet. Hmmm...
Why don't they lower their fees if they care so much about pet over-population?
Aunty, not disagreeing with and I think the proposal is silly, but Vets are Doctors and they have just as much invested in their careers as Human docs. They still have student loans and it cost roughly 60-80 k to attend Vet School, not to mention all the overhead and yes liability insurance. I do believe some vets out there inflate their prices for sure and I have seen some other thinks I don't care to mention but most are hard working honest people who truly care about animals. That is until you get into the corporations like Banfield aka Petsmart.
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Hooah!
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cupo
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Lots of clinics do free or cheap spaying and neutering. People who don't get their pets fixed do it by choice. Stupid bill. What kind of idiots propose this crap?
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This can't be healthy. All this fishing is really messing with my head.
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NickVellios
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Quote:
CHINOOK73 said:
Nick, how many dogs and cats do you have?
Why does that matter? I see where you are going with this, so make sure you read where I clearly said I am NOT in favor of this bill as it stands. I was just giving ideas on how it could be made better if it was inevitably going to be passed in one form or another.
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
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Quillback
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If they are going to fund this then the money should come out of the general fund. But, as Cupo says, it's a crap idea.
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AuntyM
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TM,
Maybe you are right, but I kinda think not. My vet wants $1400 to remove a marble sized tumor off my dog Millie's butt. (there has to be a joke in there somewhere?)
Millie will just live with it.
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"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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archy99
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Forget the dogs and cats. How about we offer to spay that biatch in Cali with the fresh litter of one-pound kids? She's up to 14 now, and she's still living with Mom.
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AuntyM
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No kidding!
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"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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TeXMojo
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
TM,
Maybe you are right, but I kinda think not. My vet wants $1400 to remove a marble sized tumor off my dog Millie's butt. (there has to be a joke in there somewhere?)
Millie will just live with it.
Nope, no joke, but I will admit that seems pricey, and it probably is due to the location and if the tumor is benign/malignant and if the cancer has spread. Vets are just like human docs, always get a second opinion. You may want to try one of the University's that has a Vet School. They are usually cheaper. Bottom line is if your not happy with the prices and the care, I would find another vet. And I will say this, which is just my opinion, Vet Clinics in large cities do tend to charge more so I would get rural. Good Luck with Millie and I hope it's nothing serious.
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AuntyM
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No cancer, it's already been asperated and tested. We've been watching it for several years. Two different vets in the same clinic said it's up to us if we want to get rid of it since it doesn't interfere with her using the bushes. We were told butt tumors are pretty common.
I don't think anybody would say Gorst is a large city. It's not even near a large city.
We had a half lab, half golden that had a tumor removed about 10 years ago. $175.
When it comes to this legislation, I don't expect my state representitive will be much help.
She's a veterinarian.
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http://www.ccapnw.org
Deficit neutral, the new "big lie"
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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