Magicfly
Offline
THE TROOPER
Profile Status:
Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Pasco Bulldog country
|
|
No problem Clay. I'll be your WING man anytime. 
P.S. Get an Avatar like mine and that will take care of half of your problems. 
Mf
--------------------
The schexy van...under the Trees
There is unrest in Camas...
trouble with the van
for the family
wants to keep it...
and the PANTS ignores
their pleas....
(Part XII of Fear)
|
Black_Ghost
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/13/03
Posts: 5172
Loc: Western GLs
|
|
I have heard you fellows say that the hatchery brats are not as aggressive out there, does not appear to be the case in GLs the wild and hatchery fish both take the fly readily it appears to me after 25 years of fishing them.
Hatchery fish are placed in the rivers by the state DNRs for the publics recreational enjoyment. So enjoy them and the great outdoors, but be very courteous to the wild strains, they are precious and they are becoming few.
BG
--------------------
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
|
BobK
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/17/03
Posts: 2139
Loc: Upstate NY, Lake Ontario Tribs
|
|
ALL of the GLs steelies trace their ancestry to hatchery fish initially. Some may reproduce naturally, but they all started that way, so I would guess that fact makes their lineage and wildness "questionable"!
Just being honest.
BobK  
|
Sterling
Offline
Jack
Profile Status:
Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Washougal WA
|
|
Hey no Harm no foul. Me and Clay have been fishing buddies for awhile. If I didn't like the guy I wouldn't pick on him. and you know he deserves it !LOL He is a good fisherman and I would go on any river and fish with him. He is well versed in the ediquette of fly fishing. So I don't ever have to worry bout him overcasting me or hogging the good water. If anything he usually gives way on the Choice water to let you go in first. So he's not such a bad guy. he is just a big goofball ! we have had good and bad luck together.Like the time we were fishing and someone flattened his tires.. what a day that was. and then the one time someone broke into my Van and Stole 400 bucks. at least the fishing was good !
--------------------
Stephen
|
Black_Ghost
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/13/03
Posts: 5172
Loc: Western GLs
|
|
Quote:
ALL of the GLs steelies trace their ancestry to hatchery fish initially. Some may reproduce naturally, but they all started that way, so I would guess that fact makes their lineage and wildness "questionable"! Just being honest.
Well what the books say they were brought to Lake Michigan in the 1880s from CA and OR steelhead strains. Wonder if they were taken wild from the rivers and freight trained out here for stocking. Or did they have functioning hatcheries in CA and OR back in the 1880s ?
Research and let me know, you have more freet time than me I am sure these days. LOL
BG
--------------------
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
|
BobK
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/17/03
Posts: 2139
Loc: Upstate NY, Lake Ontario Tribs
|
|
No, Hal, they weren't brought here in water-filled milk cans. They came as EGGS, and were placed in hatcheries by people like the famous Seth Green at the Caledonia hatchery in NYS. Don't try to dream fantasies up, spread myths, and get your hopes up.
BobK
|
Sterling
Offline
Jack
Profile Status:
Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Washougal WA
|
|
Really ! I thought most of them came from the Skamania Hatchery on the Washougal. is that wrong?
--------------------
Stephen
|
Steelheader69
Offline
Nooch Diver and Camp Cook
Profile Status:
Reged: 12/30/00
Posts: 7901
Loc: South Prairie, WA
|
|
Sterling, I think their summerrun stock for certain rivers came from the Skamania. But they did get a variety of fish from different areas from my understanding (I thought the same too at one time lol).
--------------------
TEAM JACKSON BALDWIN
Project Healing Waters
CampChef Prostaffer
|
silverfly
Offline
Silver
Profile Status:
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 123
Loc: Livingston Mtn, WA
|
|
Sterling, You can add me to the apology list. Something I read on another thread got my hackles up and I thought it was carrying over into this one. Guess I should switch to decaf!
I also thought the same thing about all GL steelhead originating from the Skamania hatchery since I remember hearing the term "Skamania mania" used back there.
Black Ghost, Interesting you don't see a difference in "wild" vs. hatchery feeding aggression. Maybe there just hasn't been enough hatchery generations to select out the "biters" through sport harvest, as I suspect is the problem out here.
-SF
------------------------------------------
|
fredaevans
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/12/03
Posts: 3902
Loc: Upper Rogue River- Oregon
|
|
"...Interesting you don't see a difference in "wild" vs. hatchery feeding aggression. Maybe there just hasn't been enough hatchery generations to select out the "biters" through sport harvest, as I suspect is the problem out here."
Good thought there. Had my first (well, actually only my second total) trip to the Deschutes a couple of weeks back. Even though I only released one fish, and missed (God only knows why) there was a major (apparent) difference between the 'takes' of Rogue fish to these.
Nibble, nibble vs. CHOMP!
--------------------
Fred A. Evans
|
Steelhead86
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 503
Loc: Washington
|
|
Have to agree that overall the nates seem a little more
aggresive than the hatchery fish. However, the most
violent take that I have personally ever had on a fly
rod came from a hatchery fish - it was even more explosive
than a Tarpon!
--------------------
What good is treasure if you can't share it
|
Black_Ghost
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/13/03
Posts: 5172
Loc: Western GLs
|
|
Nope don't see a difference out here, some of our rivers are basically all hatchery and they take flys just the same as bait or lures. Sometimes flys are the go to method, go figure ?
BG
--------------------
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
|
silverfly
Offline
Silver
Profile Status:
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 123
Loc: Livingston Mtn, WA
|
|
My experience is that there are fish that will move to larger or "standard" size steelhead flys, and those that won't (at least at given time). Those that do tend to be natives. Those that won't tend to be hatchery origin.
However, when using much smaller patterns I find that the the hatchery fish and natives respond about the same, with the natives still being a bit more aggressive. It also seems that fish in this "unaggressive" category tend to be a lot more selective when it comes to fly color and profile. More like trout fishing.
Fred, Are the Rogue fish mostly wild, or are the hatchery fish aggressive as well?
BG, Often times flys are the go to method out here as well, and not just for steelhead. I really think we have bred entire runs of lockjawed fish out here because there is a definite difference.
--------------------------------------------
|
Black_Ghost
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/13/03
Posts: 5172
Loc: Western GLs
|
|
I think those true Nates out there are just mean aggressive fish and I need to aggravate them soon. I guess the Hatchery Brats could be docile steelhead. Don't know love them all myself.
BG
--------------------
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
|
Sterling
Offline
Jack
Profile Status:
Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Washougal WA
|
|
I totally agree with Silverfly. I wish the Brats took the fly as agressivly and the nates did. especially the summer runs. Those guys are totally explosive! especially on a skated fly.
--------------------
Stephen
|
Backer
Offline
egg
Profile Status:
Reged: 03/09/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Bonney Lake, WA
|
|
I tied up a few of these flies in smaller sizes and fished them on the lake I live on. Work great. Even in brown.
I also noticed that when fishing different colors flies the fish act differently. All flies catch fish but one color really sets the fish off. The trout fight harder, come 2' out of the water, and hit so hard that they snap the leader.
|
Black_Ghost
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/13/03
Posts: 5172
Loc: Western GLs
|
|
Had four to the fly yesterday on a hatchery river, almost gave the SS fly a try but then found the magic fly for the day, my new go to Caddis Nymph. Its a keeper !
BG
--------------------
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."
Jane Wagner
|
fredaevans
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/12/03
Posts: 3902
Loc: Upper Rogue River- Oregon
|
|
SF, interesting you should ask. ("Fred, Are the Rogue fish mostly wild, or are the hatchery fish aggressive as well?" The Rogue and Applegate have very large planting programs (hatchery is at the base of Warm Springs Dam .. river mile 152). Majority of fish out this facility are salmon, but a couple hundred thousand summer runs (don't know the winter count) are put into the Rogue every year.
The counting station (vid. taped, then counted) is located at Gold Rae dam about 5'ish miles north of Medford. So from the counter to the hatchery is about 30 river miles. The count is updated every couple of weeks (dependent upon number of moving fish, fewer more often, etc.)and they're now adding in the count of fish actually IN the hatchery. Subtract a from b and you've got a pretty good idea of what's actually kicking around in the river.
So back to your question: appears our run is in excess of 80% native fish vs. plants. As it's catch and release only on the 'nates,' their survival rate is quite good. Summer run this year was over 10,000 into the top 30 miles of river.
Plus a heck of a lot of fall kings and coho.
Are the nate's more agressive? I'd have to say yes. I hook a fair number of fish every year (wish I landed half!! of what I hooked ..) but with the release the native fish bit I haven't had a BBQ'ed steelhead in almost a full year!
Every single fish I've landed this past year has been an un-clipped fish.
--------------------
Fred A. Evans
|
BobK
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/17/03
Posts: 2139
Loc: Upstate NY, Lake Ontario Tribs
|
|
Fred, that was a beautiful response!!
BobK
|
fredaevans
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 06/12/03
Posts: 3902
Loc: Upper Rogue River- Oregon
|
|
Thanks Bob: number for river flows/fish counts is:
800 472 2434
I think this is a freebe from anywhere in the US.
Pooie, forgot to add. If you pull up the water flow info (the dams number is on the recorder) on the web for Dodge bridge, Gold Rae, Grants Pass, etc., it's almost a dead giveaway as to where to fish. Almost, but not quite 'illegal' in it's simplistity
--------------------
Fred A. Evans
Edited by fredaevans (11/24/04 07:17 PM)
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
