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Fly Fishing >> Spey  

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fredaevansModerator
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Which spey line to choose?
      #169078 - 02/11/05 04:34 AM

The following cut and paste is from the UK fly fishing forum board. Question was: 'which/how to choose a spey line.' Best answer I've ever seen in print.

Fred
Forgive my ignorance but I am interested to know a bit more about this subject area.

To be honest when it comes to fishing tackle I am not that technically astitute.

I tend to just get going with a line and rod rating that match, get a feel for it if its a new set up, and start casting away. Maybe I adjust my action a bit depending on the rod. For example with my Diawa Whisker 12ftr I generally have a softer wrist and more relaxed slower stroke, but when fishing with Mick's XL50 9ft 6wt my wrist is kept firm and the stroke faster. These small adjustments just seems to make me get on better with the rod, especially if fishing 3 or 4 flies.

My main interest in the line belly regards Double Handed Salmon rods. I have always been able to Spey cast to a level which allows me to cover most rivers and I dont feel a need to cast any further.

But my main question is what is Line Belly refering to and what are the effects of different characteristics? Is it something i should give some consideration to?

As ever I am sure this has been asked before and I am very grateful to anyone who takes the time to reply.

tight lines

C4
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Re: Question about line belly
« Reply #1 on: Today at 05:44:49 »

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Hi Corin.

The belly is the fat bit. Simple as that.

Fly lines have slightly different tapers to make them more (or less) suitable for a particular tast. This can range from casting large flies, casting into the wind, Presentation, ability and distance.
Which ever taper you choose is a compromise of the features above.

A general purpose line is exactly that. It will manage all of the above but be master of none. The more specialised you go the more you compromise the features at the other end of the way you are going (so using a distance line will compromise presentation, using a shooting head will compromise your line mending etc)

There seems to be a greater and greater push to buy specialist lines and this is fine if you want to own half a dozen lines and a bill for 300 quid.

However, the specialist lines only offer a slight increase in useability in the area compared to the loss of ablity in the other areas. As you generally don't know what the prevailing conditions will be when you arrive for the fishing or the fact that they could change during the day mean that taking a bog standard middle of the road line offers far more diversity and ability to cope with whatever happens.

So, Salmon lines. Well generally they all have a long taper to aid long distance turnover. There are generally Five different head lengths:

1) Shooting heads (shortest at about 44')
2) Short (about 55' like the Rio Windcutter or Snowbee 1D)
3) Medium (about 65-75' like the Rio Midspey or Snowbee 2D and 3 D
4) Long ( 100' like the Rio Grand Spey or SA XLT)
5) DT Extra long (up to 120')

So what are the benefits?
Well a shooting head needs little casting room and once thrown cannot be mended. You also have to strip it back to recast.
The shorter heads are great for beginners and can be used for smaller rivers and for shooting for larger rivers. They may require some stripping back before recasting.
The medium heads are great all rounders and for intermediate casters. They can be mended well.
Long heads are for the advanced casters and very large rivers and can be mended.
DT is all about versatility. it can be cast a long way, mended better than any of the others once over 100 ft and can be fished very short to very long. But the turnover is slightly down on the long taper lines above.

The taper desings themselves vary in each of the categories above. Generally the more weight at the front of the line the more the ability to turn over heavy 3" brass tubes.. the firther the weight it back in the head the better the presentation.

Personally I'd recommend you go for a great all rounder until you know the particular specialist traits you are likely to encounter and require. A Rio Midspey or Snowbee 2D or 3D would be a great first line.

Finally I don't understand the knocking that the Windcutter gets. Its a fantastic all round line, great for beginners, can be used like a shooting head by advanced casters. It can be used for rivers that are very small to rivers that are very big and handles any size fly admirably. Maybe its head length envy?

Cheers,
Carl


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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: fredaevans]
      #169403 - 02/12/05 04:00 PM

This fellow knows his stuff, he is a fly fishing guide and casting instrutor in UK. I checked out his web site. Love this final quote from above:

"Finally I don't understand the knocking that the Windcutter gets. Its a fantastic all round line, great for beginners, can be used like a shooting head by advanced casters. It can be used for rivers that are very small to rivers that are very big and handles any size fly admirably."

Right on ! Long live the Windcutter !



BG

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: Black_Ghost]
      #169418 - 02/12/05 05:47 PM

Wincuter is a long belly line!

Short Belly's RULE!

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: H2H]
      #169420 - 02/12/05 05:51 PM

Here I am looking at other lines now like Snowbee, Loop, Hardy, etc. "the horror of it all".

Maybe I should give up on spey like a couple of fellows I know that went to "Float Gear". LOL

BG

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: Black_Ghost]
      #169426 - 02/12/05 06:44 PM

Nah, don't give up on them. There is a time and place for float fishing. But it's a valuable tool to have on board. I won't use one 100% of my flyfishing time, but I do use them. They do help work some slots MUCH more effectively.

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: Steelheader69]
      #169472 - 02/13/05 05:54 AM

Windcutters are awful lines for learning to speycast with as the beginer never learns the basics. I is like casting gear. Drop the line in a heap, light your ciggy then flick it out, not spey casting

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: williegunn]
      #170227 - 02/16/05 09:42 PM

Quote:

williegunn said:
Windcutters are awful lines for learning to speycast with as the beginer never learns the basics. I is like casting gear. Drop the line in a heap, light your ciggy then flick it out, not spey casting




Sigh .. Willie, Willie, Willie .. so young .. so much to learn! Actually, as a 'learning line' I'd have to agree with you; it's my 'last choice' with a newbie.

But once "they" get the basics down and we're off to teaching them how to cast sinking head, etc., the best line going for casts at 90 foot+.

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: fredaevans]
      #170295 - 02/17/05 06:31 AM

If I am casting over 90 feet I am not fishing the fly under control, anything over 90 feet is a pseudo casting exhibition IMHO. I am there to fish effectively with spey equipment and catch a fish, maybe. Wind Cutter is fine for the smaller rivers in my area, but maybe on those really big/wide european and PNW rivers I may need to make longer casts with a different line.

Short heads are better for me given the rivers I fish.

BG

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: Black_Ghost]
      #171002 - 02/21/05 12:06 PM

This past week-end at Kaufmann’s Spey Days; Andre Scholz was using a 31 foot head (Dry Line) under-hand casting and Ed Ward was using a 37 foot head (with sink-tips, T-14) Skagit Style casting. There where similar but different hand placement and stroke.

Both had power-full cast and tight loops.

Like Andre said in under hand cast “20% upper hand and 80% lower hand”.

I won’t even talk about long belly’s (any thing over 50 foot belly).

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: H2H]
      #171020 - 02/21/05 01:46 PM

Now that 37 foot head with T-14 sounds mighty interesting.
Forget that long belly over 50 foot stuff those Europeans and Canadians have been exposing them for years now.
But now we are coming to the truth about spey lines I think.
LOL
Cheers
BG

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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: Black_Ghost]
      #171118 - 02/21/05 09:42 PM

Quote by BG:"But now we are coming to the truth about spey lines I think."

And that would be?


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Re: Which spey line to choose? new [Re: REDSHED]
      #171127 - 02/21/05 10:43 PM

OH NO

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"And that would be? " new [Re: H2H]
      #171166 - 02/22/05 07:08 AM

H2H, you beat me to the punch. Mike BEWARE, do not go there!!

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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: fredaevans]
      #171227 - 02/22/05 11:19 AM

"The Truth" is what works for you, hopefully you do not go broke finding it.

BG

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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: Black_Ghost]
      #171477 - 02/23/05 11:44 AM

Quote by BG:""The Truth" is what works for you, hopefully you do not go broke finding it."

BG, Have you gone broke finding the truth?


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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: REDSHED]
      #171529 - 02/23/05 03:22 PM

No I have not gone broke, since I am cautious, prudent, and frugal, but I have what I need for a reasonable cost to enjoy myself and spey fish some what effectively. Effectively enough to catch fish sometimes too. LOL

Cheers

BG

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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: Black_Ghost]
      #172113 - 02/26/05 05:33 PM

Hey Hal, When I look at the main spey forum threads I see ole PM Flyfisher has made a post but when I click on that I see it turns to be BG. You have more aliases then a CIA agent. Well I suppose we've known that for a while.(G)

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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: REDSHED]
      #172131 - 02/26/05 07:04 PM

Do say

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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: H2H]
      #172161 - 02/26/05 08:42 PM

LOL. Long story, but it's not Hal. Just that PM's posts won't appear right away. So last person to post is the one who you'll see. So if I was the last, then you'd have seen mine.

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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: Steelheader69]
      #172203 - 02/27/05 10:22 AM

Jerry, You can LOL all you want but I clearly saw the name PM Flyfisher listed as the last person to post and when I went to that post it was by BG. This was yesterday and I am clearly not mistaken. I checked this several times for more then two hours. I can find no posts in this thread by PM Flyfisher so if they are indeed not the same person (and that may be true, although I believe BG has used that name in the past) then you have a malfunction in your system.
How long will it take for PM Flyfisher's post to appear as this was around 5:30PM yesterday and I'm still waiting.


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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: REDSHED]
      #172206 - 02/27/05 10:37 AM

Is PM still on Forum probation?

Ok, ok I'll quite stirring the...lol

Mf

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There is unrest in Camas...
trouble with the van
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and the PANTS ignores
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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: Magicfly]
      #172223 - 02/27/05 12:51 PM

Mike, sorry, I should explain. Yes, you will see in the main area that PM was the last to post. BUT, you can't actually see the post he did. It sits in a file that only the mods can see. Chances are you won't see it. And if it hasn't shown up, it wasn't approved. It's not a malfunction. Just that you can't see it. I can actually see the post on my screen, but I have administration controls. So that's why you can see that he's posted, just not his post. You only see that last post, which is Hal's. Just a coincidence that Hal used to use the PMflyfisher name and he was last to post. So not a screw up. IP's don't match, so not Hal.

Yeah MF, for now he's still on lock down.

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Re: "And that would be? " new [Re: Steelheader69]
      #172387 - 02/28/05 01:02 PM

Its not me beleive me so help me god !

The last person I would want to be associated with on this forumn is PMFLYFISHER thats for sure.

Last online: 02/27/05 09:06 AM

BG

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"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."

Jane Wagner




Edited by Black_Ghost (02/28/05 01:04 PM)


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