Spoonman
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silver
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Loc: Fraser Valley,B.C
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For all you guys across the line that come up here to fish the Fraser;The Cheam band in Chilliwack has filed an injunction to prevent sport-angling on the Fraser when they are conducting their "food fishery"They are also want to be asked for their permision to fish in the area between the Harrison River and Herrling Island,claiming all bars,islands and riverbed as their titled lands.More detailed info can be found on the web-sites I have linked in the Fraser sockeye thread.
-------------------- Live to Fish Fish to Live..... Jack Daniels Pro-Staff/Team Hardcore
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workin4fishin
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Chromer - I wonder what one looks like up close
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That's a new one. Not surprising though. Whatever happened to John Cummins standing up to them?
Food fishery.... Last I checked there weren't 10's of 1000's of Sto:Lo members. They illegally 'catch' more in a week or two than they ALL could eat in a yr if they ALL ate nothing but Salmon breakfast lunch and dinner ALL yr.
Wonder if they'll hold up a CN train this yr, or hold a DFO officer hostage at gun point again, or maybe just continue selling em by the ton without any consequence.
If only we could stop the LOSERS and restaurants from buying from them.
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O________
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j~ >')))><|
My grandfather's RAF unit in WWII
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Spoonman
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silver
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The Cheam band has received a temp injunction that is in force from Fri-Tues.It will be enforced in as much as sport fishers will not be allowed to fish from anchored boats,to allow for unhindered drift-netting.Too bad the only legal drift-net opening is for Sat.only For up to date info on the situation the Fishing with Rod link (discussion forum)I posted in the Fraser sockeye thread is best.
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Fish Jesus
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Last year they drift netted grassy ALL night long. The locals dubbed em chug boats and used em for rock throwing targets.
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workin4fishin
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Chromer - I wonder what one looks like up close
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I just read the entire thread on Rod's forum. It's sad, but it looks like the battle's already lost as the typical 'let's not make any trouble and let the RCMP deal with it' Canadian attitude has set in. Spoonman, you know what I'm talking about.
How many RCMP in all the Fraser Valley detachments combined? HINT: Not enough.
Here's what they have to deal with:
-Blatant and open breaking of (many , not just DFO regs) laws by the Cheam and other Sto:Lo, with no enforcement whatsoever because the higher-ups caved to the politicians and other bed-wetters in the federal Liberal administration and are ordered to not be confrtontational. Last I checked, a police officer's job description included arresting law breakers, and that usually is somewhat confrontational...
- The CBC live camera shots (back in 98?) of the huge warehouse full of pallets (or whatever those boxes are called) of fish (ALL illegally caught) and the Chief pushing them away, closing the doors say there were no fish in there. (maybe that's where Baghdad Bob got his media relations ideas)
-Remember the armed conflict up in the interior in the 90's? Thousands of rounds shot at RCMP in the Coyote and not ONE prosecution, not ONE arrest, not ONE shot fired in return. They 'mediated'. I'll bet that did wonders for RCMP recruitment..
-Remember the whole mess over in Ontario with the Kehansetake Mohawk and the armed stand-off with the ARMY?
- How about last yr up in Billy's Puddle when they got the Moose hunt shut down.
Canada = 3 nations (1)Quebecois, (2)Native Indians, (3)Taxpayers who support the previous 2
According to the latest word from RCMP - if you fish from the bank, and you are hasseled/confronted by First Nations (aka poachers) regarding the injunction, you are legally within your rights. Call them if there's a problem. (should only take em a day or three to get around to responding) ICBC should have your vandalized vehicle repaired in a week or two.
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O________
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j~ >')))><|
My grandfather's RAF unit in WWII
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Spoonman
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silver
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First,the good news Re: Angling On The Fraser Threatened, Cheam File Injunction « Reply #153 on: August 11, 2005, 01:08:46 AM »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below is a news release regarding this. At yesterday's Fraser Valley Fisheries dialogue session with FN, Cheam expressed that no matter what the outcome of this court case is, they will continue their participations in future dialogue sessions. I'll have more summarized notes and thoughts on yesterday's meeting tomorrow.
For Immediate Release: August 10, 2005
At 9:30 this morning, Justice Rice of the BC Supreme Court dismissed an application by the Cheam Indian Band to remove all sports fishermen in boats from a 20 kilometer stretch of the Fraser River during Cheam fisheries.
In his ruling, Justice Rice confirmed that sports fishermen and the Cheam both have a right to be fishing on the Fraser. He ruled that sports fishermen are exercising their public right to fish in an activity they love. Cheam fishermen are exercising their constitutional right to fish for food, but left open the question whether this right extends to fishing with drift nets rather than the traditional set nets. Justice Rice ruled that although the sports fishing boats which anchor in 3 to 4 feet of water near the beach, “slow down” the Cheam fishery, it does not give rise to an interference in the Cheam fishery unless it prevents the Cheam from achieving their food fish needs.
In their application, the Cheam complained that they would not meet their food fish needs if the sports fishermen were allowed access to the river, but Justice Rice was concerned by the evidence before the Court which indicated that:
The Cheam had a long history of selling food fish illegally. He cited band member Darwin Douglas, who had submitted an affidavit to the court complaining about a lack of food fish, but had testified before the 2004 Fraser River investigation that he sold part of his 2004 harvest illegally; The Cheam had already enjoyed more than 32.5 days of food fishing in 2005; No other band fishing in the area had complained about the sports fishermen; That other bands were apparently able to satisfy their food fish requirements using set nets rather than drift nets, but were still able to sell a substantial portion of their catch through the Sto:lo-only commercial fishery; That Cheam Band members were fishing illegally outside of the legal DFO openings; That the Cheam had not provided the court with disclosure about their number of openings, their catches so far this year, their food fish requirements, their surplus catches which had been sold and other evidence necessary for the court to decide this type of injunction application.
Justice Rice also noted the evidence of how conflicts are resolved in the Fraser River community downriver of the Mission Bridge. He cited evidence from Mike Forrest, a mariner and Port Coquitlam city councilor, who stated that commercial and aboriginal fishermen adjusted their fishing practices to share the Fraser River with 20,000 ton container ships, ferries, navigation buoys, barges, log booms and other river traffic and the Cheam could do the same.
In dismissing the Cheam application, Justice Rice concluded that the Cheam would not suffer irreparable harm if the sports fishery continued. Justice Rice issued costs against the Cheam in favour of the two defendants, Phillip Eidsvik, who represented himself, and Bob McKamey who was represented by Chris Harvey, counsel at the firm of McKenzie Fujisawa.
“The message from the court is clear, all fishermen have a right to share the river and the fishery,” said Phil Eidsvik, a spokesperson for the BC Fisheries Survival Coalition.
Eidsvik noted that “Fishermen must accommodate the needs of other users and no fisherman has an absolute right to the river – anglers cannot blockade the entire river, but neither can the Cheam have the entire.”
“This decision should lower the risk of confrontation between anglers and the Cheam in the Chilliwack area because the court has confirmed the right of both groups to be on the river. Neither the sports fishermen, nor the Cheam have a right to the entire river, there is space for both,” concluded Eidsvik ..... Now the bad news.. Fishery Notice Category(s): ABORIGINAL - General Information COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll RECREATIONAL - Salmon Subject: FN0571-Salmon: Fraser River Sockeye Update - August 12 - Areas 11 to 29
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Fraser River Panel met today to receive assessments from the Pacific Salmon Commission staff on the status of the Fraser River sockeye and pink salmon runs. The abundance of sockeye salmon migrating through marine areas and into the Fraser River has been consistently lower than forecast over the past several weeks. The low abundance of four year-old Early Summer-run and Summer- run Fraser River sockeye to-date has prevented the commencement of most fisheries that were scheduled during pre-season planning. Very limited commercial fisheries in the United States have caught approximately 1,500 Fraser sockeye, and an assessment fishery in Canada harvested approximately 1,100 Fraser River sockeye. Non-commercial catches of Fraser River sockeye total approximately 84,000 in First Nations and 33,000 in test fisheries to- date. Current estimates of the diversion rate of Fraser sockeye through Johnstone Strait are ranging from 55 to 65 percent.
Within the Early Summer-run sockeye run-timing group, most stocks appear to be much weaker than forecast, with the exception of Pitt River sockeye, which have a high contribution of five year old sockeye. The run size estimate of 250,000 Early Summer-run sockeye (approximately 35 percent of the 50 percent p level forecast of abundance, 718,000 fish) was unchanged at the meeting today. The estimated escapement of Early Summer-run sockeye past Mission through August 11 is 189,000 fish.
An in-season estimate of Summer-run sockeye abundance is usually possible by this date based on normal timing; however, due to the possibility of lateness in the marine migratory timing of Summer-run sockeye this season, the first in- season assessment has been delayed. The latest peak marine-timing through Area 20 of Summer-run sockeye on record occurred in both 1993 and 1997 and was August 16. The abundance of Summer-run sockeye migrating through Area 20 is still tracking far below the 75 percent probability level abundance even if their marine timing is later than that observed in 1993 and 1997. A preliminary, in-season estimate of Summer-run sockeye run size should be possible next week. Stock identification analyses conducted over the past week suggest weakness in the return of Quesnel sockeye, which were forecast to contribute over 60 percent of the Summer-run sockeye production this season and which should be dominating in marine assessment areas at this time. The escapement of Summer-run sockeye past Mission through August 11 is tracking far behind the 75 percent p level abundance expectation (assuming their in-river timing is eight days later than average) and is currently estimated at 393,000 fish. Harrison River sockeye continue to be the most abundant Late-run sockeye stock currently migrating through the marine assessment areas, while the proportion of Weaver Creek in these areas has been low. The estimated escapement of Harrison River sockeye past Mission through August 11 is 72,000 fish, and the run size of Harrison River sockeye in 2005 will exceed the 50 percent p level forecast of 90,000 fish.
The marine migration of pink salmon through the marine approach areas has been occurring since late July. The peak migratory timing of Fraser River pink salmon through Area 20 usually occurs between late August and early September. The 50 percent probability level forecast for Fraser River pink salmon this season is 16,318,000 fish. Assessments of their migratory timing, stock contribution and abundance will be conducted over the next several weeks. Fisheries directed at Fraser River pink salmon will take into account conservation concerns for other species and stocks.
The discharge level in the Fraser River (at Hope) on August 11 was approximately 3,050 cms, which is 11 percent lower than average and the water temperature of the Fraser River (at Qualark Creek) was 18.1 degrees celsius, which is approximately 0.4 0C higher than average for this date. Water temperatures are forecast to increase to 19.4 0C in the next few days before declining to approximately 18.0 degrees celsius later next week. The management adjustment for Early Summer-run sockeye is currently 68,000 fish. These additional sockeye that are added to the escapement objective will help ensure that the target escapement reaches the spawning grounds.
Enumeration fences on four creeks in the Early Stuart system through August 10 have counted approximately 21,000 sockeye. Fish counts of Gates Creek sockeye total 483 fish through August 10. Chilko sockeye have not yet been observed at Henrys Bridge and no Cultus sockeye have passed through the Sweltzer Creek fence thus far. Numerous sockeye were observed in the Harrison River on August 4 and the fish were reported to be in good condition.
First Nations
First Nations targeted Fraser River sockeye fisheries in the Fraser River will continue this week and an update will be provided on Tuesday, August 16 following the next Fraser River Panel meeting.
Recreational
Sockeye retention remains closed in the Fraser River. Opportunities for the commencement of Fraser River sockeye retention will be reviewed and an update will be provided on Tuesday, August 16.
Commercial
Remains closed. Opportunities for the commencement of any assessment or commercial fisheries will be reviewed and an update will be provided on Tuesday, August 16.
The Panel will meet again on August 16 to evaluate the status of the Fraser River sockeye and pink salmon runs and to consider regulatory actions.
For more information, contact Paul Ryall at (604) 666-0115
-------------------- Live to Fish Fish to Live..... Jack Daniels Pro-Staff/Team Hardcore
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workin4fishin
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Chromer - I wonder what one looks like up close
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Good news = your rights to being on the water are not entirely superceded by the Cheam poachers' rights to 'food fishery' Bad news = Numbers are down, runs are late Worse news = Cheam poachers are still 'allowed' to continue their practice of drift net, set net, illegal netting schedules, and illegal selling of 'food fishery' catch and by-catch
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O________
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j~ >')))><|
My grandfather's RAF unit in WWII
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fishhog
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Did you know there is still a law on the books in Washington state that if 3 or more "native americans" are off of the reservation, it's considered a war party and subject to... well you know. It really pisses me off when governments bow down (bend over is more like it) to the tribes. Tribes claim to be such good stewards of the land. Ever been driving somewhere, when you just know you entered a reservation, just by all the beat out houses, with junked cars and garbage all over ??? I for one am sick and tired of tribes pissing and moaning, how they got a bad deal from the white man... like 200 years ago.. Deal with it.
Is my redneck showing??
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Politically correct..... What's that?
Netting = extinction
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Gooose
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"......just by all the beat out houses, with junked cars and garbage all over ???"
Sure do see that every time I'm near some trailer trash meth cookers den. Find them little communities all over this state. Care to guess what the ethic heritage of those people are fishhog?
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
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Simple Solutions to Simple Problems
Simple Solutions to Complex Problems
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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fishhog
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Fishhog raises his hand...... Teacher Goose....... Those would be white folks. But tweakers aren't netting the rivers now are they. Sometimes, my mouth gets ahead of my brain at times. Peace
-------------------- Is my Red Neck showing?
Politically correct..... What's that?
Netting = extinction
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Gooose
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Actually if you watch closely in the months to come on certain small rivers in this state you'll find quite a few gill nets being fished by the tweaker crowd.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
Simple Solutions to Simple Problems
Simple Solutions to Complex Problems
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Gooose
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Best one was the guy who tried to net chums in the Wishkah with a badmitton net stretched bank to bank. He figured it would help if he stood below the center of the net while his 2 tweaker buds went around the corner to scare the fish downstream. Couple hundred chums hit that net in one big mass.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
Simple Solutions to Simple Problems
Simple Solutions to Complex Problems
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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workin4fishin
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Chromer - I wonder what one looks like up close
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I'd pay money to see that. Unfortunately, someone would probably get hurt rescuing said tweaker's sorry butt.
To be clear, the derogatory terms I'm using apply to the Cheam band of the Sto:Lo 'nation'; a known criminal organization. I know a number of members of one band of that nation who have completely cut off all contact with the rest of the bands. In fact most of the band's members are trying to disassociate from the Sto:Lo and especially the Cheam. One member that I went to school with is in line to be hereditary chief, once his older brother (convicted criminal) dies. He may be able to turn around that band, but for the most part will have no authority or influence over the Cheam.
Before anyone goes on a rant about 'self-government' according to the CDN pseudo-Constitution, the Cheam band has broken its own laws, the laws of the Province of BC, and the laws of Canada....repeatedly. The CDN gov't is so spineless that they just cave to nearly every demand. Justice Rice's findings were woefully inadequate and he would have been fully within his legal powers to not just deny the Cheam's unconstitutional injunction request, but to censure them and shut down their illegal operation immediately. Sadly, his hands are tied.
While I disagree with special treatment for any group of people in any jurisdiction, based on their ethnic, racial or whatever grouping used, I do not have a problem with someone acting within the law. I may disagree with the law, but I will not criticize or slander those who follow it. If the WA state bands have the legal rights, according to Boldt et al, then the only thing we can do is argue and fight it legally. Slander is not the right approach. Now, that said, if they are breaking the law...
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j~ >')))><|
My grandfather's RAF unit in WWII
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Musicman
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Well said Geoff!
-------------------- JD
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