micropterus101
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p.s.s, I hate all hypocrites and poachers equally.
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micropterus101
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including commercials and sports fishers that waste and poach but thats not what the subject is here.
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quinaultguide
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Area's defining waterway is a cesspool of pollution
By ROBERT McCLURE, LISA STIFFLER AND LISE OLSEN SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTERS
Every day, our eyes deceive us.
Puget Sound, that luscious body of blue crisscrossed by carefree sailors, weary commuters and far-ranging freighters, looks healthy enough.
Paul Joseph Brown / P-I A shiner surf perch swims in a tank after it was netted recently from the beach at Golden Gardens Park by a team led by Jim Brennan, senior ecologist with King County’s Water and Land Resources Division. Brennan, center, oversees a program to monitor near-shore habitat, where the shiner surf perch are in abundance. State and federal protectors of the environment assure us that the wholesale dumping of toxic chemicals -- from Commencement Bay to Sinclair Inlet, from Hood Canal to the Strait of Juan de Fuca -- ended a generation ago. They tell us they have cracked down on overfishing, overbuilding and overflows from sewage treatment plants.
The truth is, we're still treating the Sound like a sewer.
And we have ourselves to blame.
Below the waters that define our region lies a world of pollution and decline. A six-month Seattle Post-Intelligencer investigation has found:
The Sound's ecosystem seems to be spinning out of control, scientists say.
Highly toxic chemicals dumped decades ago still are poisoning marine creatures. Researchers believe pollution is interfering with reproduction across a wide swath of sea life. About half of the Puget Sound fish stocks tracked by state scientists are in trouble.
If you could pile up all the flesh, bone, cartilage and scales swimming around, the species that would weigh in at No. 1 is ratfish -- a fluorescent-green-eyed, devil-looking trash fish.
Some 92,000 acres of mud and sand on the seafloor are considered moderately to highly contaminated -- enough to cover Seattle and Tacoma. And we're not even looking for a new family of long-lived toxics that have been banned elsewhere.
Urban growth is the single biggest threat. Pollution that washes off streets and lawns and farms, or gurgles out of failing septic tanks, is taking its toll.
Tap your car's brakes and you may grind off a tiny bit of copper -- toxic to fish -- to be washed downstream in the next rain. Step on the gas and the car spews pollutants that also are sickening sea life.
Lands fouled by toxic waste litter the region, but the cleanup of hundreds of sites -- some more than a decade old -- hasn't even begun.
Government -- from Navy ships that cruise the seven seas to your local sewer department -- are major polluters. Hundreds of government and private facilities legally dump billions of gallons of polluted water each day into the Sound.
Despite more than a decade of stepped-up efforts to prevent oil spills, we're not as prepared as we should be. A big spill here couldn't be contained enough to avert widespread environmental damage.
Unlike other major American ecosystems, such as the Everglades and Chesapeake and San Francisco bays, Puget Sound has seen only modest restoration efforts. A promised cleanup by the state has fallen far short of its goals.
A five-part special report about the effects of pollution on the waters of Puget Sound. - Part 1: Polluted waters - Part 2: Extinction or bust - Part 3: Ruinous runoff - Part 4: Maritime mess - Part 5: Turning things around - Further developments - More stories - Join the forum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Read the transcript of a live chat with reporters Robert McClure and Lisa Stiffler. Overall, the Sound "is deteriorating. I don't see upward trends in anything," said Dan Penttila, a fish biologist with the state Department of Fish and Wildlife. "It will gradually deteriorate unless people live a lot differently than they do now."
"It's not large companies we can point to so much -- it's all of us," said Usha Varanasi, the federal government's top fish scientist for the Pacific Northwest.
Other scientists and environmentalists, pointing to a penny-pinching climate in Olympia, fear Washington's faltering efforts to heal the Sound will be dealt a severe blow.
The state Ecology Department, the primary enforcer of the federal Clean Water Act, has already volunteered to delay a program to crack down on long-lived pollutants; to reduce enforcement of hazardous-waste laws; to cut back on aid to cities and businesses that want to reduce pollution; and to eliminate the unit that enforces pollution laws at dairies.
The agency is promising to finally tighten up state water-quality standards -- but the action comes years after the job was supposed to have been done.
-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
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Gooose
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Damn we agree on somethin.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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micropterus101
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Incurable Fish virus.
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p.s.s I hate all poachers and wasters equally. Including commercials and sports fishers. but thats not the subject here.
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Marty
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Tribal violitions and our perseptions of them are tough to deal with because the inablility to solve the issue from the non tribal side. Micro has valid points ... and both sides need to work towards better relations. Tribal concerns are more centered around the commercial aspect of the resource which is a direct conflict with us sporties. Sporties greed is for a daily limit... commercials is to catch them all. And since we don't have nontribal commercial fisheries in the areas micro is focused on his rant is towards tribal.. the most visible target.
-------------------- Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
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quinaultguide
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I cant speak for the Nisqually, skoks or any other group. I have seen gillnets in the Quinault tidewater high and dry with fish in them. The nets are set, the tide comes in fish get caught, then the tide goes out. The fishermen pick up the fish. It may look like waste at a certain point but if you stay and watch you see the fishermen return. I dont know how it works in the sound or on the canal. I can only attest to what Ive seen.
-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
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Marty
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I think each tribe has a different set policy on who and how they get to net. Quinaults being more traditional spot based... elwhas rotate for low set.. hohs free drift and set net.. not sure on the canal tribes and the net allocation per family
-------------------- Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Steelhead dues paid one cast at a time repeated a 1000 times a day...one more cast looking for a fix
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quinaultguide
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In southeastern Washington State, the four Lower Snake River dams provide: irrigation for 13 farms on 37,000 acres, 4% of the region's electricity in an average water year, taxpayer-supported shipping of 4 million tons of commodities, and quarter billion dollars annual revenue for the U.S. government. Before western man arrived to the Pacific Northwest, Redfish Lake, Idaho hosted some 25,000 adult sockeye salmon every year. In 1998, only one Sockeye returned to Redfish Lake. Throughout the 1990's, a total of eighteen Sockeye adults returned.
-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
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Gooose
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Mr. Pentilla's knowledge is limited to forage fish species and he is the expert on those species but I must disagree with his statement that everyting is declining. Other than herring spawning grounds the state has no definitive knowledge of the actual current or past spawning grounds of other forage fish such as candlefish and surf smelt. Make as needed science is what the quote is.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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micropterus101
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Pollution is a terrible thing but I have silvers that have been spawning successfully in a ditch along a road fo 13 years now.
What happens in the skok is you will see nets above the tidal water in for weeks unchecked with rotting fish in them. even the tribal elders net which is allow to net 7 days a week.
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quinaultguide
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Mortality in the Hydrosystem Corridor Downstream Migration of Juvenile Fish
Average (1994-1999) Direct Mortality Fall Chinook Spring Chinook Steelhead Columbia/Snake Dams
(8 dams) 12% 20% 17% Columbia/Snake Reservoirs
(8 reservoirs) 81% 40% 41% Lower Snake River
(4 dams & 4 reservoirs) 72% 30% 29% Columbia River
(4 dams & 4 reservoirs) 21% 30% 29% Columbia/Snake Rivers
(8 dams & 8 reservoirs) 93% 60% 58% Indirect Mortality ? ? ?
-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
http://www.quinaultfishingguide.com
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micropterus101
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Hey can we stick to the tribes here? lol. I am going to bed now. to much competition.
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quinaultguide
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5000 eggs per spring chinook adult pair.
On average, Snake River spring chinook lay about 5,000 eggs. Studies in Idaho indicate that well over 90% of the eggs will be fertilized by the male (or males). In the gravel, some eggs will perish because they were not perfectly formed, others will fall prey to microorganisms like fungus or parasites. Additionally, young fish and developing eggs are eaten by birds and by other fish. Of the 5000 eggs laid by the female chinook, about 8% survive to migrate downstream towards the ocean. On average, 400 smolt migrate per spring chinook adult pair.
DOWNSTREAM MIGRATION
Juvenile Migration to Hydrosystem Corridor
For Steelhead and spring/summer chinook about 60% survive to the beginning of the hydrosystem corridor at Lewiston, Idaho. The survival rate to here depends on the distance traveled but typically falls in the 50 - 70% range. Sockeye survival to the first reservoir is a bit lower with a survival rate in the 30-40% range.
Juvenile Survival through the Hydrosystem Corridor of eight dams and reservoirs
Based on averages from 1994 through1999, juvenile survival through the Hydrosystem Corridor is 7.4% for fall chinook, 40.3% for spring/summer chinook and 41.5% for steelhead.
Mortality in Reservoirs Reservoirs formed behind the dams slow water flows, alter river temperatures, and provide habitat for predators, all of which may result in increased mortality. Salmon mortality occurs mostly in the reservoirs (40%), while mortality at dams is about 20%.
Through the first reservoir, 95-96% of the steelhead and spring/summer chinook reach the first dam (Lower Granite). The situation is much worse for the fall chinook with only 60% surviving to Lower Granite dam.
During late June through August, summertime flow augmentation provides measurable survival benefit for juvenile fall chinook. It is far from conclusive, however, if this survival benefit is due to water temperature, turbidity or flow rate. The next few years of returning adults (which migrated downstream as juveniles during low flow augmentation years), will greatly increase our understanding of flow augmentation effects (see www.bluefish.org/fishflow.htm).
-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
http://www.quinaultfishingguide.com
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quinaultguide
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Wake up Micro, I just got here!!!
-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
http://www.quinaultfishingguide.com
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quinaultguide
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http://www.bluefish.org/ovecatch.htm
Heres a good read if your open minded enough to read all of it. Sorry Micro, no pictures.
-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
http://www.quinaultfishingguide.com
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quinaultguide
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-------------------- "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
<")}}}><~ Ruben Estavillo
http://www.quinaultfishingguide.com
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AuntyM
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What are we fighting about again? Oh, tribal fishing...
If the tribes didn't take those fish and sell them to the public, somebody else would. You can fool yourselves into thinking otherwise, but you'd be VERY wrong. The non-fishing public has just as much right to those fish as we do and they get the majority from the tribes. I wish the public had to pay more for them, but it's the packers/processors and grocery stores that set prices.
It's a scientific fact, that it's safer to fish in river vs salt if you're targeting a specific healthy run.
We never get to see the fish harvested by non-tribal commercials, but suffice it to say, in many cases, they're taking ESA listed fish every time they fish.
I wish tribes would experiment with other methods and consider releasing wild spawners, but that's really my only gripe.
I won't even fish the Skok and it has nothing to do with the tribe. It's all those idiots setting hooks on every bump that are dangerous and make for an unpleasant experience.
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Trouthead
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Ruben, It's the Skoks, Puyallups and Muckleshoots that are giving all the Indians a bad name. Even during the big flood last week there were a dozen nets tied to the Boeing bridge on the lower Green river. Those nets hung for a week before logs tore them out. Rotting fish in nets in the Puget Sound Rivers isn't that uncommon. Since this happens near major population centers, it's more visible then the good things that the coastal tribes are doing. Also these same tribes own huge Casinos, Emerald Downs, an Amphitheater and have netting and hunting rights yet still receive Federal subsidies.
-------------------- Trouthead
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micropterus101
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Okay Qg, I am somewhat awake now. but on my wat to catch some hog cutthroat. I read the link. yes I know about that but. If the south puget sound and canal tribes are such good stewards you would think that know this they would not purposely target wild fish at the mouths of rivers with no hatchery supplementation at all.and if thats not bad enough then why do they also try to wipe these runs out? this year at Dewatto on the first good rains they purse netted inside Dewatto bay wrapping there nets around the entire school of wild coho that could not run up the river due to lower then normal flows and after that they netted accrossed the mouth! Same on Tahuya! This season there were very very few silvers that made it into the river yet the state nor the tribes would close them down. Just one of the things that really got my pantys in an uproar this year.
P.s the state closed the skok to sportsfishing to protect some hatchery fish while the tribe continued to net. The sports snaggers moved to Dewatto and Tahuya and wiped out whatever did make it up the river and to this day as the rivers were closed as of oct 31st for the season there are still people snagging in them unchecked. Again the fish in these rivers were strickly wild!
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Marty
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Did I mention the elwha dams are coming out and the Elwha tribe was a major reason this is happening.
-------------------- Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Steelhead dues paid one cast at a time repeated a 1000 times a day...one more cast looking for a fix
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micropterus101
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whoohoo!
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micropterus101
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ok off to catch 14 to 18 inch wild searun Cuts.
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micropterus101
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Gosh dangit, I just couldnt resist. It is wonderful that the tribes are buying up property around creeks so whitey cant see whats going on,oops I mean so they can protect them fish. lol
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Marty
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is that an illegal net? just because its a net doesn't make it illegal
-------------------- Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Steelhead dues paid one cast at a time repeated a 1000 times a day...one more cast looking for a fix
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micropterus101
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Incurable Fish virus.
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Loc: Port Orchard
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