fishguidebrian
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Just got off the phone with one of the members of the North of Falcon team and WOW is all I can say......It's not good. Basically there was a planned Bay fishery in Grays Harbor and an outstanding King fishery in the Hump. Some members of the team wanted an IN River fishery in the The Chealis. The Halis side of things has a catchable number of around 1,500 or so Kings. This was total, commercial and sport but not including Tribal. Somewhere along the line, team members supported giving the comemrcials more Coho in exchange for allowing a sport fishery in river on the Kings! Of course the commercial gillnetetrs liked this idea! Get this, the commercials basically traded their half of the Kings for 60% of the catchable Coho in the basin. We will most likely see an Inriver Chinook catch quota of around 1,500 fish and the comemrcials will get a catch of about 8,600 or so Coho! Guess what, they fish first and our leftover portion of the split is 7,500 or so fish but AFTER they get their catch. Plus the gillnetters do get to keep incidental Kings caught in the Coho gear..... Many thanks to our team of Chehalis basin reps who [**whoops**] us over and gave the commercials more than what they were looking for.....
-------------------- Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas!
Edited by fishguidebrian (04/05/07 08:41 PM)
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Musicman
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What a job that was to screw the sporties over....please list the yahoos who okayed this bs.....I guess it's politics, as usual!!!!!! As in business, votem out if they are doin the job....who ever is in charge needs to hear our voice!
-------------------- JD
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fishguidebrian
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Well the rcommendations fo rthis trade came from acouple of members of The Halis basin task force....
-------------------- Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas!
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bighoof
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Won't be long, there won't be anything left in those rivers.
-------------------- Jeff
Leader Buddy Prostaff
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SKYGUY
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Wow, talk about getting it in the back door..... So what happens when the commercials fish that system into extinction? What system get's it next?
-------------------- I love the smell of cured eggs in the morning.
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6_degree_d
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Who and what is this Chehalis basin task force? I know the Grays Harbor committee helps to set seasons but kind of got ambushed by the state in what they were trying to do with the Chehalis fishery this year.
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FireFish
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Brain, I don't know where you got your info, but it is wrong. Those of us on the Grays Harbor Committee did not agree to what will be the final agreement. First of all you have to understand that our 50% of the harvestable fish is split between us the Sporties, the Commercials and the Chehalis Tribe, I know you know this. Out of our 50% the split has always been devided, by the State, 60%-40%. As in we get 40% and the Commericals are given 60%. We have the numbers provided by the State that show the Commercials always get their's and of course we apparently are unable to catch ours. With the exception being last year on Silvers because there where no Coho to be caught by anyone. They have produced numbers that show in Willipa area, the Commercials have gotten as high as 92% on some years with an average of the last 6 years being around 89% for Coho. These are the numbers they have and yet we sit in meetings listening to the commericals always asking for more fish. It is unbelievable. They also have numbers that indicate that the split is much closer to 60%-40% in the Chehalis basin, but that's debatable. The pre season forcast is for 1642 chinook, in the Chehalis basin. The numbers are much higher in Willipa and have been for years. Last year they allowed a one fish per day Chinook retention in area 2.2 that opended on Oct. 1st and closed Oct. 16th. Area 2.2 opended Sept 16th for a Coho fishery and it was catch and release all Chinook. We had roughly 450 fish to retain as sports fishers. We took about 350 the 1st day and proved how good we are by surpassing our aloted take by as much as 1000 fish over. Like wise the Tribes took around 1600 fish. Even though this had the makings of an over harvest apparently we still met escapement. Now I say we as I talk about that fishery in the bay, and I don't even fish it. However I am representing the sports fishing communittee so we are all involved. You need to understand that last year we where talking about 450 fish per side, as in Sportsmen and then 450 for the Tribes. Our Committee stands on the beliefs of conservation and getting our Chinook numbers back up. We did not agree to a Sports Fishery in the bay last year, because we knew what would happen. WDFW did it anyway. We got lucky they met escapement. Fast forward to present. The proposal at the NOF meeting in Olympia last week, was some what as you described it. They pulled numbers out of somewhere that they feel very strongly about and that there are enough Chinook in the system to support a chinook fishery in the bay, area 2.2 and the mainstem Chehalis up to porter for 31 days. As in open OCt 1, close Oct 31. They insisted that we would not over fish these fish and that they where ok with the Commercial Coho Harvest having low impacts on the chinooks to the point that they are not even required to use live boxes this year. So, the Commericals can keep their so called incidental catch and not have to worry about releasing live kings. We did not agree to this, the meeting drug on and on, some of us had to leave and when it was all said and done the aboved mentioned regs where kept in rough draft form, as in we where told (nothing is set in stone). So, yesterday in fact, I spent my morning to afternoon up at Sea-Tac attending the PFMC to try to present information as to the direction we on the Committee would like this years regs to go. By the way, there is no charge for the personal time I spend trying to make a difference and do the right thing. Anyway, I was not going to be able to present to a council or commission group even though I had all my paper work in order and copies of our proposal that we would in fact put our name on. Due to the fact that WDFW and the Tribes had not even completed agreements on all of Puget Sound, nothing was moving forward until that mess was resolved. I had no choice but to leave our proposal with members of the region 6 office and was assured it would be addressed. We got the phone call late this evening that the rules will be written as previously described. As in they will not make any changes.... Here is what we proposed... RECOMMENDATION:
We respectfully request that the Council consider the following alternative Grays Harbor proposal specifically regarding Marine Area 2-2 and the Mainstem Chehalis:
September 16-30: - Marine Area 2-2… SIX salmon total, only TWO adult coho, release adult chinook and all chum. - Mainstem Chehalis River north bank upstream to the confluence of Elliott Slough… SIX salmon total, only TWO adult coho, release adult chinook and chum. Single barbless hook, no bait, fishing permitted only from the bank.
October 1-15: - Marine Area 2-2… SIX salmon total; only TWO adults, ONE of which may be a chinook; release all chum. - Mainstem Chehalis River upstream to Porter Bridge… SIX salmon total; only TWO adults, ONE of which may be a chinook; release all chum.
October 15-November 30: - Marine Area 2-2… SIX salmon total, only TWO adult coho, release adult chinook and all chum. - Mainstem Chehalis River… SIX salmon total, only TWO adult coho, release adult chinook and all chum.
This will not be the final rules as we will see in final draft when it comes out. I assure you that the Committee is not having our name attached to what will be adopted for this season. At this point we feel that 3 years of tryiong to understand the methods by wich WDFW manages our fisheries, and the efforts to bring back the chinook runs to the Chehalis basin have been a complete waste of time....
FireFish Out...
--------------------
Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Quillback
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Thanks for yuor efforts FireFish. It sounds as if maximum harvest is still WDFW's guiding principle.
-------------------- I'd rather be fishing
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Tony1831
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It sounds that way to me also.
Thanks for trying to do the right thing. If only someone would listen...
-------------------- <---- "Jihad this!"
Team 10%
Semper fi, PGR member
Bocephus for President 2012
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fishguidebrian
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Firefish, my info came from a MEMBER of the PFMC..... So I take it as being good info. What you proposed is great but it's not at all what was adopted by the council, commercials and tribes. According to more than one person I talked to, the commercials are very happy with their agreement. I'll forward your letter to the members I am friends with.
-------------------- Now guiding! Steelhead after Christmas!
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ABUfreak
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no chum retention -- i wonder what happened to all of them. until the last 2 years you used to have to weed through all the dogs in the chehalis and satsop to find a silver. then again, i can remember other chum closures in the early 90s...but even then the river was still full of them.
-------------------- if we aren't supposed to eat fish, why are they made out of meat?
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AuntyM
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Quote:
By the way, there is no charge for the personal time I spend trying to make a difference and do the right thing.
The least we could do is buy you a beer Firefish. Welcome to the world of "scapegoat" politics.
-------------------- Landslide: Stevie Nicks greatest song!
http://www.ccapnw.org
The Monster Breathes!
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Gooose
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Firefish could it be that a couple influential members of the group who prefer to have their John's River chinook sport fishery pulled the same stunt they did last year? Worked behind the scenes to keep their precious trophy king fishery? Sure would be easy for someone to then claim it was the groups proposal.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Gooose
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Brian just so you know the Chehalis and Willapa sport fishery decisions at NoF are controlled from the sportie side by about 3 people of influence. Firefish and company can come up with whatever plan they want but it won't matter as only the plan supported by those 3 or so will be the one implemented. Ask FishDoc about it sometime. Until Firefish and crew find a way to remove those people from the process I expect no change in the results.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Musicman
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First plausible explanation for idiocracy that i've heard yet Brady! Makes total sense....I can't wait to sit down with Jim, have breakfast and be enlightened to the bologne of it all! Thanks, cya on the shrimpin boat!
-------------------- JD
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Riverfishin
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Firefish, thanks for the post and your ongoing efforts...stick with it, in time your perseverance will make a difference.
-------------------- CCA Member
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Marty
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Back room politics at its finest again.
-------------------- Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Steelhead dues paid one cast at a time repeated a 1000 times a day...one more cast looking for a fix
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Fishmaster
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The coho fishery out of Johns River in September is rediculous, most days like last year everyone will just be hooking and releasing chinook, hmmmm. I wonder how many went to sea lion fodder after they were let go. IMO its a waste of a fishery, not many are actually fishing it for coho in September.
When is someone going to get some common sense and not just pull numbers out of a hat and then give fish away that may not be there at all. If its a weak run the nets will overharvest and take everything, if its a strong run they will get to net a little longer and increase there catch.
Oh Brother.
-------------------- Im just going to go fishing for a couple of hours;) or <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> = , honey. I`ll be back before you wake up.
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FireFish
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Quote:
fishguidebrian said: What you proposed is great but it's not at all what was adopted by the council, commercials and tribes. According to more than one person I talked to, the commercials are very happy with their agreement.
Why wouldn't they be, WDFW is in the business to manage our fisheries for the Commercials not the Sport Fishers. And yes Brian, I realize what we proposed and what the regs will be set at, are completely different, so it stands to reason that the finger pointing and the blame should go to others and not our committee. However Gooose is right, in that there are three individuals who have a personal agenda and just like the folks at WDFW, the Commericals and some of our Sport Fishing folks, conservation and building our Chinook runs back to respectable numbers, is not on it.
Anyone getting motivated yet to join CCA...
FireFish Out...
--------------------
Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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sablefish
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Welcome to the Cooperative management system of Washington State...I'm fairly certain that means that WDFW cooperates with whatever the Tribe dictates. Been working well on the Skagit...LOL Well enough that escapement is rarely met and the three competing tribes keep thier nets in almost year round. HMMMMM makes me wonder!!!
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Gooose
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Sablefish the issue in this thread is how the good work by several dedicated individuals on the Grays Harbor sportfisher advisory group to conserve the resource was likely lowholed by several influential sportfishers so they can have their annual trophy Chinook kill fishery. The Indians had nothing to do with it and the non-tribal gillnetters are probably very pleased for the help from those individuals. Firefish as a member of the newly created PNW CCA I'll be advocating that the CCA takes on the Grays Harbor issues as a priority.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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FireFish
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Amen Brotha Gooose... 
FireFish Out...
--------------------
Member of Grays Harbor Salmon Management Committee:
1. Working to Unite Sporties to get Issues
Resolved...
2. Working Hard to Get Back Our 50% of the Bolt
Decision...
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Gooose
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I will also advocate that the CCA work to force WDFW to recognize that there is a distinct seperate late winter run of wild Coho in the Chehalis basin.
-------------------- Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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fishdoc
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Just got home from a week of fishing in Arizona and I get to see this....
Firefish...thanks so much for putting yourself on the front lines. Its not fun and is very frustrating as you and I have discussed. I'll call ya.
Gooose...for almost twenty years I have fought for the late Silvers, great idea on bringing CCA in on that battle, do you mind if I help?
Brian...your passion is greatly appreciated in this crazy battle.
I will address more later but lets all remember what the late Corky Smith said and I have adopted.
"We have dreamed and hoped and overharvested for years! It's time we error on the resource side.
doc
-------------------- If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.
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Fishmaster
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How about the wild winter Chinook run as well that comes in with those same late silvers in the Chehalis, how does someone go about getting a special strain of fish recognized by the WDFW such as these, seems to me if we could prove both late strains it would only improve the chances of recognition.
-------------------- Im just going to go fishing for a couple of hours;) or <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> = , honey. I`ll be back before you wake up.
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superfly
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WOW Brian,
## edited##
Duane and I and the others have worked very hard for 3 years on the conservation side of the plan and year after year the department wants to side with the tribes and commercials. We need to get our plan that we wrote up ratified by the commission and them maybe it will ahve some teeth. But as it stands now Ron, Phil and the other top officials in the Dept can just blow us off.
You think your frustrated, walk in our shoes ##deleted## !!! and spend the time we do trying to make it better for all of us sportsmen, I gurantee you could not !!!
Peace
Superfly
-------------------- www.superflysfishing.com[/url]
2/23 4th BDE 2 ID Good Job !!!
Now Booking for: Winter Steelhead & Late Coho
I'm like sprint or Motorola no Service out of your range !!!!
Member Grays Harbor Salmon ManagementCommittee
Edited by Marty (04/10/07 10:53 AM)
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Todd R
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