ubbt header

120x60 - No URL

kerrysbb2 Join the CCA in the fight to save coastal fisheries Guided fishing on the Quinault river System
Guided Jet Sled fishing Holdzit fishing Products
Guided Jet Sled fishing trips Batson Enterprises and Forecast components
fishidaho Guided Steelhead Fishing
bbaa4 georgebanner


Click here to land your next MORTGAGE from a Steelheader.net member!



Many of the forums are  now private for Supporter/members only including FISHING REPORTS!! ... click here to JOIN

Thanks to everybody who has decided to help maintain our great community.  We continue to grow because of your support.


There are currently 2 users in the Chat Room. Join them!
River Fishing >> Goverment & Science and Fisheries Management  

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA
      #288244 - 05/07/07 10:00 AM

Puget Sound steelhead declared "threatened"
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEATTLE -- The National Marine Fisheries Service has listed Puget Sound steelhead as a "threatened" species under the Endangered Species Act.

The agency proposed the listing a year to cover naturally spawned steelhead from river basins in Puget Sound, Hood Canal and the eastern half of the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

Agency biologists say the decline in the steelhead population has been widespread, likely because of degraded habitat, man-made barriers, unfavorable ocean conditions and harmful hatchery practices.

The steelhead in today's listing include more than 50 stocks of summer- and winter-run fish. The Skagit and Snohomish rivers support the largest populations.

An "endangered" species is in danger of extinction. A "threatened" species is likely to become endangered within the foreseeable future.

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration spokesman Brian Gorman says this is the second listing for a Puget Sound fish after Chinook salmon in 1999. The listing also is unusual because it's in an urban area.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_WA_Puget_Sound_Steelhead.html

NOAA Magazine || NOAA Home Page Commerce Dept.

PUGET SOUND STEELHEAD GET PROTECTION UNDER ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT

May 7, 2007 — The NOAA Fisheries Service announced today that it is listing Puget Sound Steelhead as "threatened" under the federal Endangered Species Act. The agency proposed the listing just over a year ago in response to a petition from Sam Wright of Olympia, Wash. (Click NOAA image for larger view of map showing locations of ESA-listed Puget Sound Chinook & steelhead. Click here for high resolution version. Please credit “NOAA.”)

The listing covers naturally spawned steelhead from river basins in Puget Sound, Hood Canal and the eastern half of the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Also covered by today's action are two winter-run hatchery stocks: the Green River natural and the Hamma Hamma River stocks.

The NOAA Fisheries Service said it looked at the biological status of Puget Sound steelhead as recently as 1996, but at that time the population did not warrant listing under the federal species-protection law. Since then, however, agency biologists say there have been continued widespread declines in the fish's population, despite substantial reductions in the harvest of natural steelhead.

NOAA's Northwest Regional Fisheries Director, Bob Lohn, said vital work on steelhead recovery was already underway. Steelhead share many of the same waters as Puget Sound Chinook, which are already protected under the ESA.

"The work already accomplished by Shared Strategy, the Sound's grassroots salmon-recovery coalition, will provide a solid foundation for the recovery of steelhead," Lohn said. "We'll continue to work with Shared Strategy, the tribes, Puget Sound Partnership, the state and others to assure that any additional effort needed to specifically benefit steelhead is included as part of a salmon recovery plan."

Lohn also praised the ongoing collaborative efforts of the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife and Puget Sound tribes to develop watershed-based management plans to serve as what he called "the building blocks of a statewide steelhead-conservation strategy."

The steelhead populations in today's action include more than 50 stocks of summer- and winter-run fish, the latter being the more widespread and numerous of the two. Most steelhead are found in northern Puget Sound where the Skagit and Snohomish rivers support the largest populations.

Biologists with the agency said the root causes for the steelhead population's decline likely include degraded habitat, blockages by dams and other man-made barriers, unfavorable ocean conditions and harmful hatchery practices.

A species categorized as "endangered" is in danger of extinction. One listed as "threatened" is likely to become endangered within the foreseeable future.

Puget Sound has three other fish species protected by the federal Endangered Species Act: Puget Sound Chinook salmon, Hood Canal summer-run chum salmon and bull trout. These species overlap some of the range occupied by steelhead, a species that tends to use smaller streams and migrate further upstream in Puget Sound watersheds.

Steelhead are a popular gamefish and have an unusual life history that makes studying and protecting them a challenge. Unlike most other members of the Pacific salmon family, steelhead do not necessarily die after spawning, and some can remain in fresh water as resident rainbow trout, although rainbows are not covered by today's listing.

The NOAA Fisheries Service is dedicated to protecting and preserving the nation's living marine resources and its habitat through scientific research, management and enforcement. The NOAA Fisheries Service provides stewardship of these resources for the benefit of the nation, supporting coastal communities that depend upon them, and helping to provide safe and healthy seafood to consumers and recreational opportunities for the American public.

NOAA, an agency of the U.S. Commerce Department, is celebrating 200 years of science and service to the nation. From the establishment of the Survey of the Coast in 1807 by Thomas Jefferson to the formation of the Weather Bureau and the Commission of Fish and Fisheries in the 1870s, much of America's scientific heritage is rooted in NOAA. NOAA is dedicated to enhancing economic security and national safety through the prediction and research of weather and climate-related events and information service delivery for transportation, and by providing environmental stewardship of the nation's coastal and marine resources. Through the emerging Global Earth Observation System of Systems (GEOSS), NOAA is working with its federal partners, more than 60 countries and the European Commission to develop a global monitoring network that is as integrated as the planet it observes, predicts and protects.

Relevant Web Sites
NOAA Northwest Fisheries Service

NOAA Fisheries Portal

Media Contact:
Brian Gorman, NOAA Northwest Fisheries Service, (206) 526-6613

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/s2854.htm

Fish on...

Todd

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Trouthead
Offline
Subject of the Puritan Rep. of Washington
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 09/17/02
Posts: 4487

Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288247 - 05/07/07 10:11 AM

"Biologists with the agency said the root causes for the steelhead population's decline likely include degraded habitat, blockages by dams and other man-made barriers, unfavorable ocean conditions and harmful hatchery practices."

I don't see nets in the spawning rivers listed. Somebody forget or is it not PC to mention them? Man made barriers usually mean that they are permanent rather then mobile. I can repair the water shed on the Green River all I want but if the fish can't get past the nets around the 1st. Ave. Bridge due to nets then what am I wasting my time for?

--------------------
Trouthead

ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)

C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimh
Offline
Salted and Unsalted Boater!
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/27/02
Posts: 4349
Loc: Area 8.1, 8.2, 9 or an S river...
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Trouthead]
      #288254 - 05/07/07 10:20 AM

I read that, but I'm having trouble determining what it means to fishing. I mean...I don't think it helped the Salmon runs to be endangered, but it did help the Sea Lions and Bald Eagles.

--------------------
Wear a PFD if you want to live.



Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AuntyM
Offline
Looking for a few good fish!
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 05/07/01
Posts: 10257
Loc: Harstine Island
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: jimh]
      #288256 - 05/07/07 10:27 AM

Quote:

I can repair the water shed on the Green River all I want but if the fish can't get past the nets around the 1st. Ave. Bridge due to nets then what am I wasting my time for?





You are about to be told that harvest isn't the problem Trouthead.

--------------------
Landslide: Stevie Nicks greatest song!

http://www.ccapnw.org

The Monster Breathes!

"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: AuntyM]
      #288258 - 05/07/07 10:34 AM

Aunty, instead of the obvious (which is that almost no one, tribes or us, is fishing for wild steelhead in Puget Sound), how's about you take your little "winky" icon and put it into a post telling us where all those Puget Sound wild steelhead are being harvested?

Fish on...

Todd

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288259 - 05/07/07 10:34 AM

NOAA Fisheries Lists Puget Sound Steelhead ESU as Threatened

Statement by Dick Burge, VP of Conservation for the Wild Steelhead Coalition May 7th, 2007 Contact: Dick Burge, 360-765-3815, Nate Mantua, 206-616-7041, or Rich Simms, 425-750-4639

Kirkland, WA – The Wild Steelhead Coalition praised the ESA listing as Threatened with Extinction determination by NOAA Fisheries as an important step in protecting the region’s depleted wild steelhead populations. This extraordinary trout species is born in Washington’s rivers and streams, then migrates to the ocean, traveling as far as the Russia coast, to feed and grow to as large as 30 pounds before returning to their native Puget Sound rivers to spawn. Steelhead are the Washington State fish, and they have been an icon of the Pacific Northwest and a source of important cultural and economic benefits throughout the region’s history. Puget Sound’s wild steelhead are highly sought after by anglers, and steelhead fisheries provide significant income to many small communities in the region. The Wild Steelhead Coalition has worked tirelessly with state and local agencies to improve protections for wild steelhead and steelhead fisheries since 2000, and fully supports NOAA’s determination as being based on solid scientific evidence. Dick Burge of the Wild Steelhead Coalition made the following statement: “Puget Sound’s wild steelhead have been in steep decline for decades. In the past twenty years we’ve seen formerly productive runs fail year after year. Decades of degraded habitat, poor hatchery practices, and misguided harvest management have to be addressed to turn the declines around. It is time for action. “We sincerely hope that the ESA listing will focus attention on the habitat and ecosystem issues that have led to the region-wide declines in the abundance of Puget Sound’s wild steelhead. Improved fishery management is not enough. Puget Sound’s rivers and streams must be restored for wild steelhead to thrive. Reliance on steelhead hatcheries to replace wild fish has proven to be a failed experiment, and hatcheries are likely causing substantial unintended harm. The entire Puget Sound steelhead hatchery program must be overhauled to restore Puget Sound’s wild steelhead.” “The Wild Steelhead Coalition looks forward to working with federal, state and tribal governments to recover this remarkable species in its native rivers of Puget Sound.” To learn more about Wild Steelhead, visit http://www.wildsteelheadcoalition.com

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288260 - 05/07/07 10:38 AM

Except for the spring season on the Sauk and Skagit, all steelhead in Puget Sound are under automatic WSR regulations and clsoe at the end of February, since none of the runs are anywhere near making escapement.

Any steelhead that are caught are being caught incidentally while fishing for hatchery fish...and almost all of those wild steelhead that are caught incidentally are caught by sportfishermen...there is little to no net fishing for steelhead in Puget Sound for steelhead that catches many wild steelhead.

Fish on...

Todd

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Trouthead
Offline
Subject of the Puritan Rep. of Washington
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 09/17/02
Posts: 4487

Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288265 - 05/07/07 10:56 AM

"Aunty, instead of the obvious (which is that almost no one, tribes or us, is fishing for wild steelhead in Puget Sound), how's about you take your little "winky" icon and put it into a post telling us where all those Puget Sound wild steelhead are being harvested?"

Nisqually River during the Chum Salmon net fishery. Closed to recreational Steelhead fishing for several years.
Puyallup River during the same fishery.
Green River (King County) same fishery.
Nets in those rivers during November and December catch Salmon AND Steelhead. This year I will post pictures.
Incidental by-catch?


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimh
Offline
Salted and Unsalted Boater!
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/27/02
Posts: 4349
Loc: Area 8.1, 8.2, 9 or an S river...
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Trouthead]
      #288266 - 05/07/07 11:02 AM

Todd, can you say something that matters on this thread besides the talking points. I'd like to be educated. Why do you think only the sportsman incidentally catch fish? Don't nets do that too?

--------------------
Wear a PFD if you want to live.



Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fishdoc
Online!
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 01/30/02
Posts: 3221
Loc: SWWA
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: jimh]
      #288267 - 05/07/07 11:10 AM

Todd..you lost a lot of ground with me on this post. Harvest is not the problem?? I don't know how old you are but were you around pre Boldt??

doc

--------------------
If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AuntyM
Offline
Looking for a few good fish!
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 05/07/01
Posts: 10257
Loc: Harstine Island
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288268 - 05/07/07 11:19 AM

Quote:

Todd R said:
Aunty, instead of the obvious (which is that almost no one, tribes or us, is fishing for wild steelhead in Puget Sound), how's about you take your little "winky" icon and put it into a post telling us where all those Puget Sound wild steelhead are being harvested?

Fish on...

Todd




Todd, take a look at which board your posting on. This is the POLITE board.

Add Hood Canal gillnetting to the list of incidental take.

--------------------
Landslide: Stevie Nicks greatest song!

http://www.ccapnw.org

The Monster Breathes!

"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kwaj
Offline
Like I know...?
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 02/06/03
Posts: 1183
Loc: Rosedale
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: AuntyM]
      #288276 - 05/07/07 12:11 PM

WTF? I didn't know it was merely coincedental that the rivers with the biggest WS return problems have nets in them at the same time as the run returns....

....Must be that Whidbey Island fishery that takes all them Wild ones...

Serious though, I don't understand this politcal crap. "little to no net fishing".........

--------------------
Semi-Pro Staff


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: kwaj]
      #288290 - 05/07/07 02:02 PM

OK, Marsha...I'll ask you politely, and if you and others don't want to "take my word for it", then go find out for yourself.

What is the current harvest level for wild steelhead in Puget Sound?

Historically, what was the harvest level for wild steelhead in Puget Sound?

Who fishes for wild steelhead on Puget Sound streams?

What is the timeframe of the declines in Puget Sound steelhead stocks?

What effect did massive restrictions on wild steelhead harvest in Puget Sound have on stock status?

What you'll find is that harvest was a very serious problem, but that it hasn't been for years. When stocks declined, harvest was almost completely stopped, and the declines carried right on unabated.

You guys all are having a very visceral, but uneducated, reaction to this issue...there are indeed plenty of net fisheries, but they don't target wild steelhead in Puget Sound...just as there are plenty of sportfisheries in Puget Sound that don't target wild steelhead.

Both fisheries catch wild steelhead, and both fisheries kill wild steelhead, but the numbers, in spite of the sight of nets in rivers on Puget Sound, are quite low...yet, the populations continue to decline, both in rivers with nets, and in those without.

How does harvest cause a continued decline, even after it has stopped, and especially in streams where there hasn't been any harvest?

Habitat has been severely degraded, and is the number one limiting factor, by far, for wild Puget Sound steelhead.

Fish on...

Todd

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Trouthead
Offline
Subject of the Puritan Rep. of Washington
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 09/17/02
Posts: 4487

Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288292 - 05/07/07 02:13 PM

"You guys all are having a very visceral, but uneducated, reaction to this issue...there are indeed plenty of net fisheries, but they don't target wild steelhead in Puget Sound...just as there are plenty of sportfisheries in Puget Sound that don't target wild steelhead."

I agree with the point that they don't TARGET the natives but that doesn’t say anything about the un-TARGETED natives that the nets kill. I do not hear anything about the Nisqually Steelhead recovery. Could you tell me about it? Or the Puyallup recovery or the Green River recovery or the White/Stuck River recovery? No new damns, lots of habitat recovery and no new destruction by the logging companies, so where are the fish?

How do the fish get through this to get to the spawning habitat?



--------------------
Trouthead

ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)

C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimh
Offline
Salted and Unsalted Boater!
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/27/02
Posts: 4349
Loc: Area 8.1, 8.2, 9 or an S river...
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288293 - 05/07/07 02:13 PM

Todd, I'm still wondering what you are proposing as the solution. Are you really suggesting that improving habitat will bring the wild steelhead back even though incidental catches by nets continue? If yes, what type of habitat changes can do that?

Can you allude to the habitat changes that caused the decline and give examples?

BTW, I'd rather be uneducated than lack reasoning powers.

--------------------
Wear a PFD if you want to live.



Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: jimh]
      #288304 - 05/07/07 02:53 PM

All right, jimh...you started it, so you finish it...use those "reasoning powers" of yours.

1. Which streams are being limited by tribal harvest in Puget Sound?

2. What was the historical harvest on those rivers?

3. What is the current harvest on those rivers?

4. Now that there is virtually no harvest, and hasn't been for years, how have the stocks rebounded on those streams?

Don't confuse you not agreeing with me with me not having reasoning powers...but do some research and back up your assertions...which, by the way, is what I would consider "reasoning powers" to be, rather than just making stuff up...including showing pictures of tribes salmon fishing, as if it has anything to do whatsoever with Puget Sound steelhead.

Fish on...

Todd

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Trouthead
Offline
Subject of the Puritan Rep. of Washington
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 09/17/02
Posts: 4487

Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288308 - 05/07/07 03:03 PM

"including showing pictures of tribes salmon fishing, as if it has anything to do whatsoever with Puget Sound steelhead."

Get a clue Todd. I've watched the Steelhead tossed in the boats while standing on the bridge above these nets on the Green. They were "targeting" Salmon but killing Steelhead. Would you like to join me and watch? I can take you to another bridge on the Puyallup and show you the same thing except on the Puyallup you will be able to buy the fish. I understand that you work for the state but I doubt that you are blind.

--------------------
Trouthead

ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)

C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fishdoc
Online!
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 01/30/02
Posts: 3221
Loc: SWWA
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288310 - 05/07/07 03:10 PM

OK Todd, help me out here. You are certainly in this game way more than I am.

In the pre Boldt days I was a high school kid with a drivers license and a desire to fish everyday. The Green, Puyallup and Nisqually were my primary targets. This was the 70's and fishing on these three rivers was amazing, bank fishing limits was the norm. Then came Boldt and this high schooler stood on the banks of these rivers and literally cried...high school guys don't cry...but when I watched the tribe stretch the nets between two boats with beaters in the boats beating the water near the shore...I knew what I had grown up enjoying had ended. So I guess if you were to somehow wipe my memory clean I could buy the fact that overharvest is not the issue and that habitat or something else was the problem. What is see now is how do we get these fish to recover from the overharvest that occurred even if its not occurring now. How?? I really don't know other than literally stop all harvest period and I don't think that will happen...maybe. I am open to suggestions.

doc

--------------------
If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimh
Offline
Salted and Unsalted Boater!
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/27/02
Posts: 4349
Loc: Area 8.1, 8.2, 9 or an S river...
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288311 - 05/07/07 03:12 PM

Todd, I'm still wondering what you are proposing as the solution. I already asked that, BTW.

It would be nice if those were the only questions...I actually used the word net not tribe. In other words, you don't know, but only have your own guesses based on only the facts you want to believe.

That's why the WSC is ineffective, BTW. You can't say why, but you want me to agree. I'm asking fair questions. It's too bad you don't have any answers, but only more questions.

--------------------
Wear a PFD if you want to live.



Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fishdoc
Online!
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 01/30/02
Posts: 3221
Loc: SWWA
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: jimh]
      #288314 - 05/07/07 03:25 PM

Todd, I read your response on PP...this was and is my response.

OK...I understand what you are saying. My problem is that I remember what the PS streams were like before the over harvest. So what you are saying that while the overharvest was occurring so also was the decline of habitat and now we are left with no fish and no habitat. True??

doc

--------------------
If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: fishdoc]
      #288319 - 05/07/07 04:17 PM

Yes.

Fish on...

Todd

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fishdoc
Online!
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 80% Complete

Reged: 01/30/02
Posts: 3221
Loc: SWWA
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288320 - 05/07/07 04:25 PM

OK...so, since we have minimal fish and minimal habitat is it reasonable to believe that the fish can make a comeback? Or should we just focus like California has on the Sacramento to providing strong robust hatchery runs, thus providing a world class fishery?

I am open to thoughts and ideas.

doc

--------------------
If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288322 - 05/07/07 04:28 PM

I think folks are having a hard time separating what may have historically caused the declines, what is currently causing the declines, and what needs to be done to reverse the declines.

Historically, there are several causes for the declines...and overharvest is absolutely among them.

Over the past couple of decades, however, harvest has been completely stopped in most places, and is barely going on in the rest...harvest is no longer causing current declines, nor is it limiting future recovery...

Future recovery will depend upon having somewhere for the fish that are left to spawn and rear, and places to feed and things to feed on and grow when they leave the rivers.

The reduction of forage for adult steelhead in the salt is limiting their productivity, and the lack of MDN in streams is limiting juvenile productivity. Those things may be helped by harvest reductions, but not harvest reductions for steelhead (since harvest is all but stopped already), but harvest reductions on salmon that provide the MDN, and harvest reductions on things like krill and herring that support adult growth in the marine environment.

Fish on...

Todd

--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!

"Correct in Design"


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Fishmaster
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 100% Complete

Reged: 07/30/03
Posts: 579
Loc: Yelm, WA
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Todd R]
      #288329 - 05/07/07 05:22 PM

Its time to stop wasting money on this pipe dream of returning native steelhead. I agree native steelhead harvest is definitely way down on the puget sound streams for at least the last fifteen years. The habitat hasnt changed much in fifteen years, so what is going to help. Its nice to place them as threatened, but soon they will be extinct.

Trying to make these PS rivers like the good old days, isnt going to happen, or by now it would be getting better.
If we started pumping out hatchery fish on these rivers, how would that work. Dont the hatchery fish still have to eat, and if there is not much forage in the sound now, what are millions of hungry little smolt steelhead and returning adults going to do to the sound, it sure wouldnt help any. I though it was hard enough to get herring this year.

Common sense says, its a waste of time.

Todd, what is the solution now?

--------------------
Im just going to go fishing for a couple of hours;) or <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> = , honey. I`ll be back before you wake up.


Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Todd R
Offline
Chromer
Profile Status:
  This User's Profile is 60% Complete

Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Puget Sound Steelhead listed as Threatened under the ESA new [Re: Fishmaster]
      #288348 - 05/07/07 07:35 PM

I don't know what the solution is...the ecosystem may be so phukked as to never be able to support viable runs of wild steelhead again...it'll be hard enough to halt the destruction, much less fix what's been destroyed.

Making