Trouthead
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Subject of the Puritan Rep. of Washington
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The resin is the binding agent. Without it you have graphite threads which are too brittle to be used by themselves, even for line.
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Trouthead
ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)
C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/
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Harry
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chum
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Karry,
The graphite fibers by themselves are not useful as a blank until they are combined with the resin and what is called a Fiber Reinforced Polymer or a Fiber Reinforced Plastic or just composite is formed.
You are right that the resin has a lower modulus (higher strain) than the graphite. It has to have so that it is capable of deforming more than the carbon fibers deform in composite. If this were not the case then the blank would fracture when it was bent. Because the resin has a lower modulus than the carbon fibers the result is that the overall effective modulus of the blank is lowered as you point out. But actually the modulus is a property of the carbon fiber and the resin not of the blank. A blank does not really have a modulus of elasticity it has stiffness and mass or weight that are the result of the modulus.
Trouthead,
It is not that the carbon fibers are too brittle. Adding the resin binds them together to form a composite but does not change how brittle the fibers are. How brittle they are is determined by the tensile strength and the strain energy of the fibers.
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Trouthead
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Subject of the Puritan Rep. of Washington
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True Harry.
My answer to "do you feel without it you can still have the graphite work as a fishable product" is No. The fibers themselves have no use as a fishable product not even for line.
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Trouthead
ABU/Ambassaduer Rest Home - Maître d' (New residents welcome)
C.A.S.T. volunteer, supporter and advocate
http://www.castforkids.org/
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hollywood10s
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steelie
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Wow, very good information. So does this mean that the higher the modulus the less strength the blank has? This would make designing a balancing act between sensitivity and strength. Is this why many steelhead blanks are made using intermediate modulus graphite? There aren’t many g-loomis blanks made out of GLX or even IMX material most are GL3. Is this because of to much breakage? Would it be possible to design a steelhead blank using RX8+ technology or would it be to brittle?
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Rainshadow
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dual red striper
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Yes we can use the RX8+ technolgy in Steelhead blanks but the market wont accept the price tag that goes along with it. In short we wont sell enough of them to justfy making them. We feel the the XST is the lightest, most sensitive, durable, and affordable rod on the market today and we will continue to expand on that technolgy for the next few years.
Emory thanks as alwase for your expert advice. Now is it true that without the corect amount of Resin used, Graphite just wont work as a fishable rod. Seems to me thats the secret ingredient that we pay our enginers to figure out. The balance between the two seem to be crucial.
I have heard the term dry material and thats what makes some rods break does that mean dry as fare as too low of resin?
Correct me if I'm wrong "Prepreg" is simply all the materials combined scrim,graphite,and resin.
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
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Rainshadow
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dual red striper
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opps sorry emory you already answered that it cant work without the Resin.  thanks
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
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Harry
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chum
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Karry,
Yes, you are right on both points. The amount of resin is important. Too much resin and you are just adding extra weight, too little resin and you are likely to get a dry spot where there is no resin to bind the fibers together and the blank will just break at that spot. And yes, the prepreg, which is just short for preimpregnated, contains the carbon fiber, the resin and the scrim. After it is wrapped on the mandrel it is put into an oven that activates it and causes it to impregnate all of the fibers, both the graphite and the scrim fibers.
Hollywood 10s
The strength of of the fibers will not necessarily be less if the modulus of elasticity is higher if you mean by strength the tensile strength or the compressive strength or the strength under torsion or shear. However, the strain energy, which you can think of as toughness does go down directly with increasing modulus of elasticity. The higher the modulus of elasticity the lower the strain energy or toughness.
This is the reason why I think that the XST blanks are such a good idea. They use high modulus of elasticity material in the butt section where the stress and strain are lower which keeps the weight down but use intermediate modulus material in the tip section where the stress and strain are higher. If they were made from all high modulus material they would be easier to break. If they used all intermediate modulus material they would weigh more.
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hollywood10s
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steelie
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Loc: Chico CA
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Awesome! Thats very good to know. I am getting two steelead rods build as we speak. One XST1143F for my float rod and XST1084F for my drift fishing. I am very excited to get these rods. Thanks alot for all of the great information!
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Hollywood
Steelhead Stalkers!
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Will fish for food
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Thick Tail
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Way to go Hollywood. You will be very happy with your choice.
WFFF
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Take A Kid Fishing It Will Be Good For Both Of You
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Brewer
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Then They Turned @ Last To Me, We Shall Call You Brewer, The Slayer Of Salmons You Shall Be'
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wow harry! thats good shiat!! this weekend at the kalama tilla i'm going to talk to marty. after he gets all liqoured up, i'm going to suggest we rename your moniker to " Honorable Harry "...
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Brewer's reel cleaning service is up and rolling. Contact me through PM for info and address.
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Harry
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chum
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For anyone that is really interested in the physics of rod blanks I wrote a two part article that was in RodMaker magazine a couple of years ago titled Rod Blanks, Characteristics, Properties and Terms, and reprints are still available. The article explains stress, strain, modulus of elasticity, tensile strength, strain energy, elastic limit, hoop strength, resonant frequency, damping, action versus taper, spine, etc. The two parts are in Volume 6 Issue#6 and Volume 7 Issue#1. Reprints are available from RodMaker Magazine, PO Box 1322, High Point, NC 27261.
If you read it over carefully you will understand what all of those things are. There is a lot of misunderstanding about them but they are not really difficult to understand.
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vangofishin
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silver
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psss... Harry is T.K. a supporter here man . Sneaking a little unsolicited plug in for him ar ye? LOL
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Rainshadow
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dual red striper
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Not likely a plug. Emory has wrote some amazing articals I would recomend them to everyone that wants proven expert advice.
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
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Harry
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chum
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Vangofishin,
I know Tom Kirkman and like him but no I was not trying to sneak anything in. I was just trying to help anyone that had any further interest.
If the moderator of this board is sensitive to that then I apologize. I tried but it appears that the software here will not allow me to edit it out.
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Rainshadow
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dual red striper
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I dont think its a problem and I'm sure Marty loves to see the rod building forum flurish like it has. Thanks agin Emory for your expert advice..
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
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Marty
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redneck yachter
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I think everybody benefits from more knowledge and discussion.
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Marty
Got Your Steelheader.net stickers?
Pay it forward
Steelhead dues paid one cast at a time repeated a 1000 times a day...one more cast looking for a fix
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vangofishin
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silver
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I was just kidding , no offense meant or taken.
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Brewer
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Then They Turned @ Last To Me, We Shall Call You Brewer, The Slayer Of Salmons You Shall Be'
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vango, this is the 2nd kalama tilla in a row that you guys are not attending. at least by your lack of responses on that topic goes. seems to me you two would bring your custom rods and show us what you got. along with some widmer drinkables. come on up and make a afternoon of it tommoarow.
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Brewer's reel cleaning service is up and rolling. Contact me through PM for info and address.
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vangofishin
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silver
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Brewer , Eric's working today and tomorow he's running a half marathon in olympia , we tried to swing it but just couldn't make it . Next year we'll be there and with extra widmer brew to make up for the last two, give out a few lures too. Eric fished the river on thursday, probably saw some of the early tilla celebrators there . He said there were tents pitched and a lot of people on the river .
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ifish365
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Chromer
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thanks for all of the info emory, very imformative, i have heard plenty about your knowledge on rod blanks and rod building, i have a rod of yours and love it, and you know our friend has quite a selection of your rods, i have fished with many of them, i hope to put in an order soon, do you make spinning rods? anyways, cool post this turned into, all of you guys have some awesome knowledge on rods!! i thought it was funny last winter when a guy took a cast with my imx last winter and told me it was almost as sensitive as his fenglass, many misconceptions on the river.
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hollywood10s
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steelie
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I just took a look at the XST1143 blank I am getting built on and all I can say is WOW! I'm very impressed with the look and feel of the blank, now I can't wait to get it on thrusday and try it out. The color looks very good as well.
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Hollywood
Steelhead Stalkers!
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ifish365
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Chromer
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tell us how it goes!
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Brewer
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Then They Turned @ Last To Me, We Shall Call You Brewer, The Slayer Of Salmons You Shall Be'
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1143... good choice brah. have three of them. hands down my favorites.
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Brewer's reel cleaning service is up and rolling. Contact me through PM for info and address.
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3RivrFishr
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Jonsin' for Steel
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Reged: 03/18/02
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..um, can you tell me what modulus my yella pole has in it? I'm sure if I can find out I will catch more fish with it, right? 
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Real joy comes not from ease or riches or from the praise of men, but from doing something worthwile. -Wilfred T. Grenfell
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Alaskan
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ultimate predator
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Quote:
3RivrFishr said:
..um, can you tell me what modulus my yella pole has in it? I'm sure if I can find out I will catch more fish with it, right?
I believe they are listed at 12, and that's with NO 0's after it. 
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hollywood10s
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steelie
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Loc: Chico CA
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I got to try out my new rod last weekend. We were chasing some big browns and it worked perfectly. I felt like I was throwing around a six foot trout rod! The rod ended up being perfect. I will be using it for mostly steelhead but I came in handy when catching eight pound brown trout. Over the weekend we landed over forty big browns and my arm never got tired of casting big rapalas and other big lures all day. Im very impressed with the xst rod blank and I am having another one built as we speak. Here are a couple of pics of it.
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hollywood10s
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steelie
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A couple more pics!
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hollywood10s
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steelie
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Loc: Chico CA
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Last one
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Rainshadow
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dual red striper
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Reged: 07/06/05
Posts: 314
Loc: Sequim
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SWEET split grip.. lets see some Brown Picks its been awhile since I have tied into them...
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Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
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