Fishcopalian
Offline
egg
Profile Status:
Reged: 01/04/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Lost In Utah
|
|
What are peoples thoughts on graphite handles? I recently picked up a Rainshadow XST 1084 and will be building it for a drift rod this winter. How much sensitivity do you gain with graphite? Are there problems with them - slick, cold ect? Finally, where can you purchase materials. Down here in Utah it is hard enough finding anyone who carries 14" cork handles let alone synthetic. Any thoughts - comments would be appreciated.
Thanks
--------------------
Lost in Utah
|
fishdoc
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 01/30/02
Posts: 3091
Loc: SWWA
|
|
Had the chance to have my boat use them when Rogue Rods came out with an 1141 wanna be but with a graphite handle....HORRIBLE! Cold, slick and slimy.
Those are my thoughts.
doc
--------------------
If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.
|
Harry
Offline
chum
Profile Status:
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Aloha, Or.
|
|
Fishcopalian,
You will not gain sensitivity you will lose sensitivity with the graphite tubing as a handle versus cork. I think that the graphite tubing works fine for boat rods where the rod handle will be put in and pulled out of rod holders and cork will get chewed up but I do not think that it makes sense for a drift rod where sensitivity is important. There are a number of variables that determine a rods sensitivity but when building a rod the first one to keep in mind is to keep the weight as low as possible. Anything that adds weight reduces the sensitivity. The XST1084 is a great blank for a drift rod though.
|
Washougal
Offline
chum
Profile Status:
Reged: 10/11/07
Posts: 64
Loc: Milwaukie, OR
|
|
There are some new materials coming out that the custom rod builders are using that are lighter than cork, will be very cost effective, and shapable. It's in it's infancy but we're getting there. Right now we're looking at maybe 35% lighter than cork with great longevity so far.
Like many things the materials you generically buy are overengingineered for many applications as the manufacturer has no idea what your slapping the product on. This applies to guides, reelsets, etc. I've use the stock graphite tubing on some pretty heavy SW designed blanks with good results, so I see where it's too heavy walled for most rods.
People in the bass arena that have went looking for specific purpose graphite materials and used them differently than the status quo have made some real improvements also.
Getting tied up on how we think a rod should look or be like/built like is only holding us back in the performance arena.
|
Rainshadow
Offline
dual red striper
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/06/05
Posts: 297
Loc: Sequim
|
|
I for one can feel the vibration much beter with the Batson Carbon handels than cork. All my rod holder rods have them for the durability as well as my spin rods for the sensitivity and it makes clean up a cinch. Its really how you glue them.I glue three of our WHKA arbors to the blank with Rod Bond and then use Gorila Glue too glue the tube too the arbors. The eva shims for the end caps make a sweet look and helps a bit for cushion as the rod flexes. The added weight is minimal and helps balance the rod in most situations. I make it sound easy to do and it is but it took me one or two before I got it down perfect. Now if you pack the whole thing with Epoxy then you are adding a ton of weight and is not needed.It is not neccesary to pack the entire tube with glue unless you plan on holding the rear handel while you real in a fish and thats just impossible.Also make sure you clean the inside of the Carbon tube out so that the glue will stick better. I do prefer a cork handel on my casting rods because of the cold. You may want to go with the Tapered woven fore grip WFG2.5 and cork on the butt section for the XST1084 it looks SWEET!
--------------------
Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
|
Alaskan
Offline
ultimate predator
Profile Status:
Reged: 02/18/03
Posts: 395
Loc: Anch. Ak
|
|
I agree with Kerry, I've built quite a few with the woven handles and Ican teell the difference. I've fished them side by side with the same blank/guides/reelseat/cork grips, and I can feel the difference.
They clean up so much better, and last forever even when taken in and out of rod holders all day.
Granted I don't winter steelhead with these rods though, and if that was going to be the idea, I would go with cork because of the warmth.
|
Alaskan
Offline
ultimate predator
Profile Status:
Reged: 02/18/03
Posts: 395
Loc: Anch. Ak
|
|
As far as materials, I buy everything I need from Anglers Workshop.
|
Harry
Offline
chum
Profile Status:
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Aloha, Or.
|
|
I think that you are fooling yourself if you think that the graphite tubing is more sensitive that cork. I have weighed it and it weighs significantly more than cork. If I remember correctly it was about 1.5 times as much as cork.
If the rod is held at a low angle so that any input vibration or movement comes directly up the line through the guides without any of the energy being transferred through the guides to the rod then what determines sensitivity is just the total weight of the rod and the reel, actually the total mass. When the rod is held at a higher angle so that some of the energy in the line is being transferred through the guides to the rod and through the rod to the fisherman's hand then naturally the characteristics of the rod come into play and the issue gets more complex. At this higher angle the additional variables in addition to weight that determine sensitivity are covered in an article that I wrote in RodMaker magazine Volume 10, Issue 1 for those of you that get the magazine.
I also made some measurements that are in an additional article that is in the issue that is coming out right about now. However, unfortunately the current article does not cover that affect of different handle materials but the previous article does.
Probably the one thing that has the most affect on sensitivity for most of us is the line. How much of the energy in the fish's bite that gets to rod by way of the line is a function of the mass density and the elasticity of the line and how much tension there is on the line. You can think of mass density as weight and elasticity as stretch. Braided lines have much lower weight per strength than monofilament and much less stretch than monofilament for their strength so braided line provide much better sensitivity than monofilament line for a given tension on the line.
|
Rainshadow
Offline
dual red striper
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/06/05
Posts: 297
Loc: Sequim
|
|
I have all the respect in the world for you Emory but I think the feeling in your hand is going away my old friend and your defenitly not doing enough fishing LOL  I'm out there at least 120 days a year using this product and if im feeling the difrence than I would bank on it. Now how do we make the carbon warm all day so its not cold to the touch well the answer is too catch more fish and thats top on my list when I'm fishing LOL..
--------------------
Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
|
Harry
Offline
chum
Profile Status:
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Aloha, Or.
|
|
Well, I am not going to argue with you about you catching more fish than I do these days, and bigger ones as well. You would no doubt win that argument.
If I get time I can introduce a vibration at the tip of the rod and put a transducer at the grip where the fisherman's hand will be and measure the amplitude of the vibration there with cork and with the graphite tubing. Would that convince you? If not then you are just a hard head and I give up.
In the mean time go weigh a piece of the graphite tubing with shims and weigh an equal length of cork.
I think that you would agree that for a given amount of energy in a fish's bite the more mass (weight) there is that this given amount of energy has to move the less movement there will be. Now which one did you find weighed more?
|
Fishcopalian
Offline
egg
Profile Status:
Reged: 01/04/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Lost In Utah
|
|
Well based on everyones comments, I think I'll stick with cork. I may look into the composite foregrip though. Karry does Batson carry these?
Thanks everyone for your input.
--------------------
Lost in Utah
|
Will fish for food
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 08/28/02
Posts: 2020
Loc: South West Washington
|
|
I have built cork and graphite handles and like them both.
But if I'm going to drift with the rod cork all the way and graphite arbors for the reelseat. One of my favorite things with the graphite tubes is covering old cork. I turn down the old handle but leave arbors to support the tube and glue in place.
WFFF 
--------------------
Take A Kid Fishing It Will Be Good For Both Of You
|
Fishcopalian
Offline
egg
Profile Status:
Reged: 01/04/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Lost In Utah
|
|
Will Fish For Food,
That is a good idea with old rods. I have several that are fairly beat-up by rod holders and use. I think I'll leaving the cork arbors and putting on the graphite tube and using them for boat rods.
Thanks
--------------------
Lost in Utah
|
Harry
Offline
chum
Profile Status:
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Aloha, Or.
|
|
Fishcopalian,
Actually you could remove most of the cork and just leave enough in several spots so that it acts as an arbor but that will not really make that much difference in terms of sensitivity.
Plus the way that Fish For Food does it has an advantage. When you apply the graphite tube you will find that it is stiffer than the rod even with a very stiff blank and when the rod flexes there is movement where the graphite tubing and the reel seat meet. The blank is flexing more than the graphite tubing is flexing. By leaving all of the cork on as Fish For Food suggests you will have stiffened the whole handle area up and will not get as much movement at the joint of the tubing and the reel seat. It may not bother you but I found the movement to be annoying and always put one of the arbors at the end of the graphite tubing right next to the reel seat.
|
Will fish for food
Offline
Thick Tail
Profile Status:
Reged: 08/28/02
Posts: 2020
Loc: South West Washington
|
|
Harry I don't leave all the cork but just arbors to support the tube. I do like the PacBay graphite arbors as they are longer and can cut them to size. I also use the EVA bushings on each ends of the tube.
WFFF
--------------------
Take A Kid Fishing It Will Be Good For Both Of You
|
ABUfreak
Offline
dual red striper
Profile Status:
Reged: 03/28/07
Posts: 332
Loc: south of the nisqually
|
|
i have played around a little with the graphite handles and while i hated them at first, they are growing on me a little bit. i still think they're kind of ugly though. despite what some manufacturers may claim, cork is still warmer than graphite, though anything is warmer than aluminum.
i've considered building my next rods with EVA grips. i've owned them in the past, and while it isn't as pretty as cork, it's plenty functional. the main issue at hand is cost. lots of cork plantations are being cut down to make room for development, and the cost has skyrocketed in the last few years. just take a look at a typical rod from 5-10 years ago, and check out one on the shelves today. the older rods had better quality cork, the new ones have a ton of filler and aren't as "clean" looking. it's an important thing to consider, especially on a steelhead rod where your typical 13" rear grip can run over $30 for high grade cork.
--------------------
if we aren't supposed to eat fish, why are they made out of meat?
|
Rainshadow
Offline
dual red striper
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/06/05
Posts: 297
Loc: Sequim
|
|
If your woried about price you could also go with a split grip as well in either carbon or cork.
--------------------
Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: