boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:zVz...lient=firefox-a
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:UnX...s+Vander+Haegen,+G.E.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
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Lead_Bouncer
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Native Slab
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Reged: 08/09/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: king county
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Lets add another category.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4673939
http://www.ghostnets.com/
http://www.nwstraits.org/
http://www.nwstraits.org/default.aspx?pageID=194
http://www.sanjuanislander.com/federal/murray/nwstraits.shtml
http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/article.jsp?ID=1000053631
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AuntyM
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Looking for a few good fish!
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Reged: 05/07/01
Posts: 10189
Loc: Harstine Island
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Any documentation on the gillnet "drop out rate" there boater? I know Commissioner Dr. Conrad Mahnken asked WDFW if they had any data for that and they say they don't.
--------------------
Landslide: Stevie Nicks greatest song!
http://www.ccapnw.org
The Monster Breathes!
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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Quote:
Lead_Bouncer said:
Lets add another category.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4673939
http://www.ghostnets.com/
http://www.nwstraits.org/
http://www.nwstraits.org/default.aspx?pageID=194
http://www.sanjuanislander.com/federal/murray/nwstraits.shtml
http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/article.jsp?ID=1000053631
i pointed all this crap out years ago on another site, you act like you just found out about it yesterday, the no-fault aproach sucks and everyone knows it.
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
Any documentation on the gillnet "drop out rate" there boater? I know Commissioner Dr. Conrad Mahnken asked WDFW if they had any data for that and they say they don't.
whats your opinion of the release mortality rate of tangle nets ?
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AuntyM
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Looking for a few good fish!
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Reged: 05/07/01
Posts: 10189
Loc: Harstine Island
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
Any documentation on the gillnet "drop out rate" there boater? I know Commissioner Dr. Conrad Mahnken asked WDFW if they had any data for that and they say they don't.
You have to answer my question first.
--------------------
Landslide: Stevie Nicks greatest song!
http://www.ccapnw.org
The Monster Breathes!
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
Quote:
AuntyM said:
Any documentation on the gillnet "drop out rate" there boater? I know Commissioner Dr. Conrad Mahnken asked WDFW if they had any data for that and they say they don't.
You have to answer my question first.
if i was "judge boater", how could you prove that there is any drop outs from tangle or gillnets, i`m not going to say that there is or isnt but in my court room i want facts, please provide the facts and not any emotional fact-less opinions that your so good at providing.
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AuntyM
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Looking for a few good fish!
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Reged: 05/07/01
Posts: 10189
Loc: Harstine Island
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That's a pretty assinine answer to the question "is there any data" boater. That's a question answered with a YES or a NO.
If you decide to play any more games, you'll just be placed on ignore and Gooose or the other mods can deal with your disruptive troll behavior however they see fit.
--------------------
Landslide: Stevie Nicks greatest song!
http://www.ccapnw.org
The Monster Breathes!
"Don't fall in!" Doug Richert Sr. 10/18/2008
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Cowlitzfisherman
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steelie
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Reged: 07/02/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Cowlitz River near Toledo WA
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
If you decide to play any more games, you'll just be placed on ignore and Gooose or the other mods can deal with your disruptive troll behavior however they see fit.
I don't care who your mods are...that is nothing more then a cop out in my opinon! Boaters "facts" on this issue are just as valid as yours are.
Neither one can be proven one way or the other!
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CCA Your Best Bet For The Fish
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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Quote:
AuntyM said:
That's a pretty assinine answer to the question "is there any data" boater. That's a question answered with a YES or a NO.
If you decide to play any more games, you'll just be placed on ignore and Gooose or the other mods can deal with your disruptive troll behavior however they see fit.
disruptive troll behavior  , you should just say, if you want facts dont ask me lmao
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Salmo_g
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silver
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Reged: 12/29/04
Posts: 103
Loc: south Sound
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Boater,
Are you doubtful of the study conclusions regarding tangle net mortality? Just curious why you're asking Aunty.
Sg
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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Quote:
Salmo_g said:
Boater,
Are you doubtful of the study conclusions regarding tangle net mortality?
Sg
yes.
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Salmo_g
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silver
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Reged: 12/29/04
Posts: 103
Loc: south Sound
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Boater,
I kinda' speed read it and didn't detect the flaw that supports the doubt. Care to share? Or ya' gonna' send me back to re-read?
Sg
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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Quote:
Salmo_g said:
Boater,
I kinda' speed read it and didn't detect the flaw that supports the doubt. Care to share? Or ya' gonna' send me back to re-read?
Sg
i guess i`m just kinda suspicious as to some of the people involved in the study and where they work.
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Gooose
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Ancient Mod
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Reged: 09/14/01
Posts: 11056
Loc: Area 12
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It certainly is such a tangled web when one looks at who is involved.
--------------------
Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
Simple Solutions to Simple Problems
Simple Solutions to Complex Problems
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Lead_Bouncer
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Native Slab
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Reged: 08/09/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: king county
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if i was "judge boater", how could you prove that there is any drop outs from tangle or gillnets, i`m not going to say that there is or isnt but in my court room i want facts, please provide the facts and not any emotional fact-less opinions that your so good at providing.
More like George Kastanza. When you present evidence at least bring all that you know.
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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lead bouncer, tangle nets are selective harvest, do you have a problem with them ?
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Gooose
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Ancient Mod
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Reged: 09/14/01
Posts: 11056
Loc: Area 12
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"...please provide the facts and not any emotional fact-less opinions that your so good at providing." TFF   
--------------------
Independent Advocate For The Fish
Not Represented By Any Organization
Simple Solutions to Simple Problems
Simple Solutions to Complex Problems
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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Cowlitzfisherman
Offline
steelie
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/02/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Cowlitz River near Toledo WA
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Quote:
Gooose said:
"...please provide the facts and not any emotional fact-less opinions that your so good at providing." TFF
Quote:
Selective fishing is the ability of a fishing operation to avoid non-target species or stocks, or when encountered, to capture and release them in a manner that minimizes mortality.
I guess the key words are…"minimizes mortality"
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/commercial/selective/willapa_selective.htm
The question then becomes…what is the acceptable "mortality rate" under the ESA?
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CCA Your Best Bet For The Fish
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Salmo_g
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silver
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Reged: 12/29/04
Posts: 103
Loc: south Sound
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The ESA mortality rate is defined annually for each stock of listed fish. A follow-up question is what is the best allocation of the acceptable mortality for the greater good of society?
Sg
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Cowlitzfisherman
Offline
steelie
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/02/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Cowlitz River near Toledo WA
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Quote:
Salmo_g said:
The ESA mortality rate is defined annually for each stock of listed fish. A follow-up question is what is the best allocation of the acceptable mortality for the greater good of society?
Sg
Salmo
I don't believe that congress established ESA that way (what's best for society). It's what's best to assure that a specie does not become extinct…right?
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CCA Your Best Bet For The Fish
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kwaj
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Like I know...?
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Reged: 02/06/03
Posts: 1162
Loc: Rosedale
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Any type of net is NOT "selective". Sheesh. "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
I was living in Portland for a few years when they came out with the "tangle nets". I remember watching the mortality %'s during the whole springer run as they were available online. What I remember ever so well that first year is that the WS mortality was hoovering right around 6% with about 3 weeks to gofor the commercials. Somehow, with the bulk of the Steelhead coming thru, the commercial season ended with the WS mortality rate being within the acceptable range of the 2% spec. Like I said, "somehow". The mortality rates were not released those last few weeks either.
Maybe someone in the know knows more about this than I. I did, however, pay pretty darn close attention to that particular study, even signed up to be a "monitor" on the boats.
Got anything on this Salmo G. I like your style man.
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Cowlitzfisherman
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steelie
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Reged: 07/02/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Cowlitz River near Toledo WA
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You can bet that Salmo has some on this! You may not like what he has though
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CCA Your Best Bet For The Fish
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kwaj
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Like I know...?
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Reged: 02/06/03
Posts: 1162
Loc: Rosedale
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Wether I like a stat/spec or not has nothing to do with it. I'm all about the facts and nothing but the facts. 
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Todd R
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Chromer
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Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 888
Loc: Seattle, Washington
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Gillnets are just as selective as fishing rods...they both catch whatever salmon are around, wild or hatchery.
The term that should be used is what the mortality rate on fish released from a particular fishing method is.
Gillnet and release has a much higher mortality rate than does rod/reel and release.
Fish on...
Todd
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http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!
"Correct in Design"
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boater
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Chromer
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Reged: 05/03/01
Posts: 692
Loc: seattle
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Quote:
Todd R said:
Gillnet and release has a much higher mortality rate than does rod/reel and release.
Fish on...
Todd
whats the difference what the release mortality rate is as long as the esa take amount isn't gone over ?
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Todd R
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Chromer
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Reged: 10/29/01
Posts: 888
Loc: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
boater said:
Quote:
Todd R said:
Gillnet and release has a much higher mortality rate than does rod/reel and release.
Fish on...
Todd
whats the difference what the release mortality rate is as long as the esa take amount isn't gone over ?
Legally? Nothing...a lower mortality rate just means it will take more encounters to kill the same amount.
It's why the folks clamoring for more "selective commercial fishing" are going to be disappointed to find that a more selective method will kill the exact same amount of wild fish, which is right up to and including the ESA take limit.
The difference will be how many more hatchery fish those commercial nets can harvest, which could multiply by many factors if they become more selective.
Fish on...
Todd
--------------------
http://www.rvrfshr.com
For all your fishing hardware needs!
"Correct in Design"
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Cowlitzfisherman
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steelie
Profile Status:
Reged: 07/02/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Cowlitz River near Toledo WA
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