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River Fishing >> Goverment & Science and Fisheries Management  

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AuntyM
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Another hit for Wild Fish new
      #103463 - 03/05/04 06:00 AM

Lawsuit spearheads fresh challenge to fish protection

Should we sit by and do nothing or support enviros like Washington Trout?

Geez... what a choice!

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Riverfishin
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: AuntyM]
      #103469 - 03/05/04 06:41 AM

AuntyM, I just left reference to this on your "What do you want" post.
As being a "born again fisherman", all this legal crap is overwhelming. I remember as a teenager going fishing in the creek by my house, not worrying about a license, and enjoying it while keeping fish as well as releasing them. Not worring about "Big Brother' looking over your shoulder, waiting for you to do something wrong. These articles in the past have been skipped over in my reading of the newspaper. Not any more!
Sometimes you have to support the people you don't want to in order to get some recognition (power of the press) for what you really want to protect in the end...Make sense?

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Quillback
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Riverfishin]
      #103483 - 03/05/04 09:14 AM

I still can't bring myself to support WA Trout. I'm sure they will fight to preserve ESA status for certain runs of wild fish that are threatened by these lawsuits and I agree that to fight these lawsuits is a good thing but WA Trout won't get any of my money. Maybe some other organizations that are involved in this will, I just don't know who they are at this time.

This lawsuit is somewhat upsetting, an unfortunate consequence of our legal system is that a judge can make a somewhat goofy decision and it becomes law (remember Boldt?). I sometimes wonder if it's all a conspiracy to keep the legions of lawyers we have in our society employed. This decision sparks more lawsuits, lawyers crawl out of the woodwork and make money, and of course the fish suffer in the meantime. Judges usually are ex lawyers, seems like they like to help their buddies make more money.

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AuntyM
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Quillback]
      #103490 - 03/05/04 09:30 AM

Quillback,

If you had Bill Gates money and Paul Allens money and backed WT you'd still be wasting your time I'm afraid. As much as I would like to think we can save the wild fish, I am beginning to realize it's a waste of time.

When you have all these non users of the resource fighting the ESA, and tribes and commercials with their preference for hatchery fish harvests, it's only a matter of time. Wild fish are an inconvenience.

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STRAWBERRY
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: AuntyM]
      #103497 - 03/05/04 10:03 AM

Unfortunatly I think there are a lot of sport fishermen and sport fishing groups that will support this latest law suit, if they win if will probably open up the upper columbia tribs to steelhead fishing which will please a lot of people in the short term but over the long haul it will be a disaster.

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Cowlitzfisherman
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: STRAWBERRY]
      #338440 - 06/27/08 04:59 PM

Where does the PNWCCA stand on this important issue?

Now that they have hired staff, legal people, and lobbyists, what is there position on this important issue…or is this bashing them for asking?

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Lead_Bouncer
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Cowlitzfisherman]
      #338442 - 06/27/08 05:23 PM



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GoooseModerator
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Cowlitzfisherman]
      #338443 - 06/27/08 05:30 PM

Where does CFM stand on this important issue?

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Cowlitzfisherman
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Gooose]
      #338493 - 06/28/08 11:26 AM

Quote:

Gooose said:
Where does CFM stand on this important issue?





If the CCA can keep there position secret, then so can I Goose!

If you don't know... then I am not going to tell you



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Edited by Cowlitzfisherman (06/28/08 11:28 AM)


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jimh
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Cowlitzfisherman]
      #338495 - 06/28/08 11:44 AM

CFM is just as important as CCA. Cool. I would have never known.

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Cowlitzfisherman
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: jimh]
      #338502 - 06/28/08 04:10 PM

Why is your CCA so "important"? Please explain in detail what "your CCA" is going to do for all of our fish and its fishery here.

Fair question to ask...or is that asecret also?

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jimh
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Cowlitzfisherman]
      #338510 - 06/28/08 05:55 PM

Well, the CCA has a proven track record of results in several parts of the country. AFAIK, there was no organization in the NW that had any significant results for the sportsman of this area. Many of us grow tired of minimal results from the "other" organizations. Similar to the throw the bums out in voting...many of us are ready to give an organization with a proven track record our money.

Check back in a couple of years and see if the CCA investment worked. Any discussion about what CCA might do for us, is really an academic argument otherwise.

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Quillback
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: jimh]
      #338538 - 06/29/08 04:50 AM



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Cowlitzfisherman
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: jimh]
      #338562 - 06/29/08 11:14 AM

Well


That was a fair enough answer, but does the CCA really believe that they can wait that long and actually increase it's membership while doing nothing of importance in the PNW?

If we look at the history of our state, if an organization doesn't do as it was expected to, it almost always losses about 50% of its momentum within the first two years and then its membership is right behind that figure. You know, I really do wish that the CCA could actually do something here in the PNW, but there "track record" really doesn't show many that they have any real record of successes in the "issues" that face the PNW. The average fishermen have no real idea just how completed these issues are and what it would take to resolve them.

I guess that many of us would have a little more faith in what the CCA can actually do for our fisheries issues if they really did have a track record of success on issues such as "joint interstate fishing agreements", "shared fisheries with tribes", "ESA", "tribes", and a host of others.

Maybe if the PNWCCA members could actually show us what the CCA has actuall done in the way of the above successes, it just might help some of us believe that they can actually do something here.

Other then to just point out to a ridiculous drummed up list of claimed sucesses for show purposes only; no one has really showed us any real specific cases that address the problems that we have here. Other then using the standard "fall back" words like "Nets", what have they actually done that's "similar" to our problems here? Please be very specific when you give us any comparisons.

As an example of what may happen; let's say that the CCA lobbies successfully to get the net fisheries out of the Columbia River. Do the CCA members actually believe that it will bring more fish back to the river? Will it bring more fish back to the spawning beds? Or will it simply mean more fish back for the tribes and less hatchery fish for us to catch and harvest?

You know, there is an age old saying… for every action there is always a reaction! Here is the way that I see things coming down if the CCA was successful in getting the white mens nets out of the Columbia River

1) The allocations for harvest on hatchery stocks will simply be re allocated to another area and commercial fishery outside of the Columbia River.

2) There will likely be more "take" in the Columbia by sport fishers on the ESA listed stocks and the sport fishing opportunely will likely be shorten instead of increased because the tribes will not decrease its allowable take.

3) The tribes "take" or harvest will increase on both hatchery and wild stocks in the Columbia while the sport fishers will not. (Boldt ruling)

4) Hatchery production will be cut back even further.

5) There will be more C&R fisheries and less harvest

Moreover, I don't believe that the courts will allow the gill net fishery to be ended.

As long as the tribes can continue to net in the Columbia, so will the gill netters be allowed to do so.


If any of the CCA supports do not believe that these things will occur, please explain why you believe that won't?

Let's start with #1 first!

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jimh
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Cowlitzfisherman]
      #338584 - 06/29/08 03:07 PM

Maybe all of your reasons are the reasons why the other orgs never did anything. It's a good thing that CCA is too dumb to know it is impossible like you.

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Cowlitzfisherman
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: jimh]
      #338602 - 06/29/08 05:30 PM

post deleted due to lack of value to this site

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Quillback
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Cowlitzfisherman]
      #338644 - 06/30/08 05:42 AM

That's a great argument - basically "CCA can't do nothing because nothing can be done for the following reasons". Heck, why join anything, might as well stay home and watch fishing shows.

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AuntyM
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Quillback]
      #338658 - 06/30/08 08:56 AM

Quote:

Quillback said:
That's a great argument - basically "CCA can't do nothing because nothing can be done for the following reasons". Heck, why join anything, might as well stay home and watch fishing shows.




I think that's the whole point of the trolls presence here and the bashing they do. They don't WANT the status quo to change.

Funny thing is, they picked the WRONG group here. None of you are brainless sheep. I've stayed out of the mess this time because I have complete confidence in you guys to think for yourselves. You're doing a great job.

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Lead_Bouncer
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: AuntyM]
      #338727 - 06/30/08 08:36 PM

When its this quiet, you can actually hear a chevy rust.

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GoooseModerator
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Lead_Bouncer]
      #338749 - 06/30/08 11:40 PM

Silence has it's benefits.

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AuntyM
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Gooose]
      #338762 - 07/01/08 06:51 AM

Hmm... suspicious here. Did a few people lose access to this forum?

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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: AuntyM]
      #338764 - 07/01/08 07:05 AM

No, we are still here Marsha.
It would take more then a couple of trollers to get rid of us.

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AuntyM
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Trouthead]
      #338765 - 07/01/08 07:08 AM



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MartyAdministrator
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: AuntyM]
      #339187 - 07/07/08 08:49 AM

Quote:

AuntyM said:
Hmm... suspicious here. Did a few people lose access to this forum?




Yes they lost the ability to attack threads and try to sidetrack to there agenda. They can still read but posts/replies must be approved first.

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boater
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Re: Another hit for Wild Fish new [Re: Marty]
      #339203 - 07/07/08 10:26 AM

Quote:

Marty said:

Yes they lost the ability to attack threads and try to sidetrack to there agenda.






what agenda are you talking about ??


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