chongo469
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This is one BIG elk..........I would shart myself if i came across 1 this big 
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When someone offers to show you one of there zippers.....make sure there talking about fishing
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Elkman
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THat's the one they called Spydie!! Huge bull, pretty sure it was a governor's tag hunt...big bucks.
later
Ryan
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NickVellios
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Holy crap, is that a 3rd tine shooting out the front, or just a fugged brow point?
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NickVellios
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Here's another pic
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
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chongo469
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I really wonder if that was wild or farmed.....like that hogzilla spoof.....i just wonder?
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When someone offers to show you one of there zippers.....make sure there talking about fishing
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gemstatejake
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Spider bull................Killed in Utah with the Governer's tag. I've heard estimates of anywhere from 80-150 grand bought him the right to hunt this bull. Doyle Moss and his crew helped guide this guy who is from Idaho........Unreal bull, cant say I'm thrilled with the way it was taken though.............
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gemstatejake
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And yeah the bull is legit...as in wild. B&C is recognizing it as the new #1 in the world........
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clucknmoan
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Yea I heard 150 also, can't say I'm impressed with the way it was taken either.
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NickVellios
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I read some bad things about the guide's methods used.
Now considering that EVERY new or potential new world record is instantly surrounded by trash-talking, rumors, lies, jealousy, and the works, you never know. There's a lot of hunters who act like gossipy old women at the salon.
You have to think about it this way. The guy basically just DONATED $150,000 to Utah Fish & Wildlife. That's pretty much what those gov. tags are. If someone donated that much to help our state's wildlife, don't you think he deserves a special tag? Let the guy enjoy his glory. If the guides really did do what I read about running the elk off during open season to ensure the trophy wasn't taken early, then that is really messed up and unethical. Hopefully this hunter didn't know anything about that going on.
Let him enjoy his trophy. It's a beautiful specimen and the jealousy seen on other discussion boards is evident. If I was rich enough to afford that, I would have done the exact same thing. The trophy may not have had as much pride, but it would still be nice to put on the wall, and I would have no guilt for taking it with a gov. tag because I know that money went back into the state, hopefully into F&W. I think Utah uses gov. tag income directly for F&W, unlike Washington who is reported to use money like that for whatever they damn well please.
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization
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gemstatejake
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No.....dont approve and thats not the way I think of it. Put those tags in a paid entry draw just like the super hunt tags here in Idaho and everyone who wants to apply gets a shot at it. Fish and Game gets it's money too. Giving out exclusive tags to only the super rich is bull$hit.
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NickVellios
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Quote:
gemstatejake said:
No.....dont approve and thats not the way I think of it. Put those tags in a paid entry draw just like the super hunt tags here in Idaho and everyone who wants to apply gets a shot at it. Fish and Game gets it's money too. Giving out exclusive tags to only the super rich is bull$hit.
I agree, but hate the state, not the hunter. The hunter had no say in how the state of Utah issues their special permits. He took advantage of a special tag that he could afford because that is what the state offered. Is it his fault? No, it's likely SOMEONE was going to buy that tag.
How is this any different than someone who got a special hunt permit from a drawing? If you win a special hunt tag from a $15 drawing and hire a guide to help you take advantage of this once in a lifetime opportunity, you still get to hunt in places and/or at times that nobody else gets to. What makes this guy's trophy any less of a trophy because he paid a lot of money for the tag? Sorry, but I don't see the logic in your opinion.
Utah also has raffles for special permit hunts. If Idaho kept their raffle system, but offered a couple extra tags for $150,000 to help fund wildlife management, is that wrong? Is a hunter that paid for the tag any less of a hunter for buying it? An extra $150,000 a year can do a lot for wildlife management. That is like 3,000 more licenses at $50 a pop. If they have several of these tags for sale, that is a TON of money for a state like Utah that has a relatively low population/land ratio. There's a lot of land to manage and this makes sense.
Does someone that pays $8,000 to take a 2-week guided vacation in a fancy lodge on the Babine river any less of a fisherman? If he landed a 35lb steelhead out of that guide's boat, is that steelhead any less of a catch than if he walked down to a local river and caught it? What about people who pay insane amounts of money to hunt Africa, or any other country at that.
My neighbor in Port Angeles drew a Moose tag for Washington this year. He hired a guide and got a bull. I didn't get the opportunity to hunt moose, and if I did, I still couldn't afford guide fees. But I don't look at his trophy as anything less than a true trophy.
If that hunter got a 3pt Elk instead of the world record, and posted it all over the internet along with the price he paid for the tag, he would not be scrutinized at all. So like I said before, it sounds like jealousy to me.
 I am happy for him that he got such a nice Elk and I hope some day I could do the same, whether it be from my $70 license & tag, or from getting rich and buying a special permit like he did.
If the guides did what I read, then that is wrong. If he knew or participated in running off elk during open season, then THAT makes his trophy worthless in my eyes. But don't blame his financial success, blame his ethics. It still hasn't been proven that the guides did this and even they did, it doesn't mean he knew about it.
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gemstatejake
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Nick...I think your missing my point. I dont blame the hunter at all. like you just said, if I had the funds I'd take advantage too. I hate that this opportunity even exists...and completely shuts out the vast majority of DIY hunters. Thats wrong point blank. This kind of thing will eventually ruin it for the average guy. Wait till the rights to hunt the private land you have access to is suddenly leased out to an outfitter with a fat bank account. Stuff like that is already happening.
I think they should put these tags up for special draw. pay a reasonable entry fee and give everybody who wants to participate a chance. And believe me the Fish & Wildlife would still make a killing. The rich guys still are usually the ones who get those tags cuz they apply hundreds of times per tag. But it still gives you and me a chance. And wildlife department still get the extra funds...........
The bull is huge. An awesome trophy. I highly doubt Mossback outfitters did anything but pay finders fees, and keep tabs on this bull all year. Basically gang scouting waiting for the highest bidder to come take the shot.....He's a pretty high profile guy and I doubt he'd do anything illegal.
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NickVellios
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I understand your view, but I suppose we just don't agree (which is fine with me) The way I see it is if you have one, two, or three $150,000 special hunts, there aren't going to be enough elk taken to make a difference for other hunters. These hunts don't always get the record bulls, and I am sure many end up empty-handed, or with average sized elk. I don't see how it will ruin it for the average guy.
And I also agree with you about the special draw. But if there are already special draw permits, putting a few more will not increase the number of entries. My point is that a couple extra permits can double the income from all the other raffled special permits. Realistically, it will not hurt the chances of a DIY hunter getting a bull. 1-3 trophy bulls taken with these high-priced tags, out of hundreds of trophy bulls in the state will not make a difference.
You make a good point, and I do agree with you for most of what you are saying. No biggie.
No point getting in too much into this since we both expressed our views.  Now I just need to figure out where one of those bulls is at with Roosevelt genetics. 
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
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gemstatejake
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Nich there is no special draw for this tag. It's completely exclusive. The only way anyone gets the privledges that come with this hunt is to pay......thats it....No other tag like available in ANY draw. Thats my point.
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NickVellios
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I see. I didn't know that. But do you agree that adding a few extra high priced permits ON TOP of the amount raffled in Idaho wouldn't be a bad thing?
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
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gemstatejake
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Would'nt sit to well with me............but whatever I guess. Prolly rather pay a few bucks extra for license, tags and such.
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pez
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Hey - here's some gas for the fire.
I think there should be a separate record-book category for self-guided hunts. If you have someone scout for you all year, and lead you up to a critter to shoot, it's just not the same sport as learning about the animals, the habitat, and putting on the miles to earn your own.
Just a separate category would satisfy me. Say, you could call one "shooter", and the other "hunter".
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gemstatejake
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Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. B&C club was created by Theodore Roosevelt to honor and document tne ANIMAL, not the hunter so much........Seems like we've gotton away from that philosophy over the years.
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Mojo
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Hell you can submit roadkill. I guess this is about like roadkill, only he had to have someone pack it out. About the only chance I ever have at B&C is hitting some critter with my truck or the sled.
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clucknmoan
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Lets just put the top 5 B&C spots for each species up for auction. Makes the same sense to me. I shoot a T&D cow every year, I hold some pretty high scores there.
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NickVellios
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If you guys feel this way, then you may as well disapprove of any guided hunts. I would love to take a guided Blacktail hunt in southern Oregon if I could afford it. I don't know the area so a guide could show me some good spots and let me hunt. If I took a trophy, I wouldn't look at it as anything but a trophy.
It isn't different than if you met up with someone from this website and had them take you hunting in their area that you are unfamiliar with. They know where the game is at, they can put you into a herd, but you still have to close the gap and finish the deal.
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NickVellios
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What is T&D?
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clucknmoan
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It's what matters to me Tender and Delicious.
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Mojo
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, That's the club I belong to as well...
Nick, I am not against guided hunts, per se. If a guide takes you to a place where you can wander about looking for animals, great.
If 9 guides dedicate every single day for 6 months tracking a ginormous animal that they had seen in years past, and advertised to a group of exclusive clients with very fat wallets - to bid on the Governors tag, not a draw, but a highest bidder deal, I have a problem. As said by others, the guy is a great shooter, but he didn't hunt. IMO it is not too far from a canned hunt. But as you know, opinions are like elbows, everyone has a couple...
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fishyness
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the t&d club thats awesome
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pez
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I don't have any problem with guided hunts. For that matter, I don't have any problem with raising revenue to benefit wildlife by auctioning one riduculously priced tag. I actually think that's a win-win.
When anybody I know goes out and finds a bull (or even a cow), kills it, and packs it out, I'm impressed. I'm impressed because I know it's dam hard work, and I respect the effort as much as anything else.
For me, I was just happy to shoot two whitetail does (I drew an extra doe tag). I guess they'd make the T&D book.
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adam376
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I feel that when you have a team of trackers out there all looking for the same animal for 100 days out of the year and those people know where that animal is every second of every day isnt hunting. If thats all a person wants to do there is a elk farm 20 miles from my house where the bulls are very big and its about the same thing.
I dont have any problems with hunting guides but there is a difference about it to me when you just wake up and they say lets go kill the bull you paid 150 grand to shoot.
Its also not fair to the public not everyone thats a big time hunter has a fat wallet and can spend the money just to shoot a big elk everyone should be able to put in and hunt the same units. Even if there is only 1 permit allowed.
Oh and joe you and pez should come up to north idaho next year for a few days after the tilla and do some deer hunting with me.
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NickVellios
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Well, if the way you say his guides operated is true, then I don't feel it is anything special.
I still think there should be a couple high priced gov. tags out here and have the money go directly to fisheries and game management. Whether or not the hunter who buys them uses his/her own skills, or relies on GPS coordinates to where a giant animal is, the money would definitely help us out since funding is getting funneled away more and more each year.
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization
There's nothing quite as rewarding as teaching a poacher to swim with waders on!
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Mojo
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Nick, Idaho does that. They raffle a sheep tag in Hell's Canyon, and they ahve the super hunt drawings. The super hunt drawings raise a ton. You can buy as many tickets as you want(I believe), and everyone has a chance at the tag. The rich guys can buy 400,000 tags, and some poor sap that buys 1 tag may win it.
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Luke_the_Drifter
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I got a dandy T&D whitetail doe and buck this year. I don't think I've ever eaten better wild meat. David Crockett, Daniel Boone, and Theodore Roosevelt would probably roll over in their graves if they knew about all the chest-thumping prick-extensionism that goes on with some of the modern day trophy hunters.
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