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River Fishing >> Goverment & Science and Fisheries Management  

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GoooseModerator
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Rogue Tribal LE
      #387103 - 10/09/09 10:45 PM

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20091008/news/310089996

What is known so far:
1. The hunter legally harvested his elk. He had the appropriate license and tag for the GMU and season.
2. The area he shot it on is open to hunting and discharging firearms.
3. He did not discharge his firearm recklessly towards humans, livestock, houses, or the highway. The background was approximately 2 miles of open saltwater. He was using a muzzle loader.
4. The hunt occurred on private property for which he had permission to hunt on. The elk was not on the adjacent private parcel for which they did not have permission nor did it die on that adjacent property.
5. The area the hunt occurred on has been actively used for hunting for years, decades, and in all probability the past century.
6.The elk herd in the Brinnon area no longer keeps to the upper watershed but has adopted the village as it's home and
is the cause of constant damage to private property, a hazard to motorists traveling Hwy 101, and a drain on WDFW LE resources which have to respond to the problems the herd causes. Hunting is one tool to help force the herd away from the community.
7. After the animal was shot one or more tourists called 911 to report poaching.
8. 911 dispatch issued a report of poaching in process.
9. Port Gamble tribal Natural Resources LE Captain and reserve officer) was in the vicinity...likely on the Quilcene River about 15 minutes away from the site.
10. They responded possibly believing it may be tribal hunters.
11. They arrived as the hunter and helpers were driving with the elk back towards the Hwy about 200 yards away.
12. They approached the hunting party with service weapons locked and loaded and with firearms pointed towards the 3 adults and one small child ad directed the party to stop and assume face down positions immediately.
13. The party immediately assumed positions of prisoners of war except for the child whom tried to hide behind his father and then the vehicle.
14. Tribal LE handcuffed 2 of the adults in kneeling prisoner of war positions and directed the third to remain kneeling with his hands behind his head.
15. Certain facts became apparent to the tribal LE Captain. 1) These were not tribal hunters, 2) the hunter had appropiate licenses and tag, 3) the season was open for said hunters tag, 4) the area was not closed to firearms disharge, 5) the shot was not reckless, and 6) they had permission to hunt that private parcel. The LE Captain at first claimed they had poached the elk until revelation #2 occurred, then he claimed that the season was closed until revelation #3 occurred, then he claimed that the area was a County No Shoot Zone until revelation #4 occurred, then he claimed that the shot was reckless endangerment until revelation #5 occurred, lastly he claimed that they were trespassing and still is claiming such today even though it's pretty clear that it wasn't. Through all this the Tribal Captain forgot one over riding fact...he has zero legal authority to regarding non-tribal hunters. He also exhibited procedures that no professional LE officer should ever or ever would use. The number of violations of law he committed is more than a handful and the top of the list is a violation of the 4 citizens Federal 4th Amendment rights. Even if he was within his legal authority to forcefully seize these citizens and detain them he did so for 2 hours. The legal precedent for all LE is 20 minutes or release them. He was in fact informed that he should do so by state and county LE. He chose not to do so.

The incident is under investigation by the state and county authorities. I would expect federal LE to eventually also become involved. The Tribal officers remain on active duty.

--------------------
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Edited by Gooose (10/09/09 10:53 PM)


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fishhog
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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Gooose]
      #387105 - 10/10/09 12:04 AM

Been following it on another site. It's looking like they REALLY blew it!!! Lets see... I can't legally detain you, because I'm from another nation, but I'm going to scar you child emotionally, ruin your hunt and any memories associated with it and treat you like a common felon.

If they screwed up and went beyond their jurisdiction (Looking like they did) I hope the people involved are awarded a tribal casino, the "Officers" in question are fired and sued civially.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: fishhog]
      #387106 - 10/10/09 01:44 AM

Even if they had been cross-commissioned by Jefferson County( they were not) so they did have legal authority to function as LE in regards to non-tribal citizens they still would be in violation of those citizens 4th Amendment rights due to their seizure and detention of those citizens well past the 20 minute threshold.
By the time those first 20 minutes were up it should have been pretty obvious to any professional LE of reasonable intelligence that the only possible violation by those citizens was at best 2nd degree trespass....a gross misdemeanor which is not a bookable offense unless there was good cause such as the suspects being a danger to the community(aka the suspects go to jail) and not cause for maintaining them in a status of forcible restraint for 2 hours. From what I gather the 3 adults were pretty quiet while on their knees in handcuffs or with their hands behind their heads. Guess just about any of us would when threatened with being shot by LE for a misdemeanor. The child just cowered and cried.

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There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Gooose]
      #387114 - 10/10/09 09:13 AM

Those effected should sue the tribe.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: jimh]
      #387117 - 10/10/09 09:35 AM

I posted the info and updates on a hunting site a few days ago and it turned into a tribal bash and the thread was locked. Not the intent!!!

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Gooose]
      #387118 - 10/10/09 09:50 AM

Sequim Gazette with pictures

More situations like this will be coming with the new cross jurisdictions if proper training isn't in place.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Marty]
      #387125 - 10/10/09 11:19 AM

I wonder if the Federal government could be targeted for a civil lawsuit for this?

--------------------
"Seen worse".....
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There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Gooose]
      #387128 - 10/10/09 12:28 PM

Yes, the US govt has been sued for overreaching LE like that take Ruby Ridge, for instance.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: jimh]
      #387130 - 10/10/09 12:40 PM

Obama will protect them. If you think his election isn't partly responsible for the current cocky attitudes by some tribal members, you haven't been paying attention.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: AuntyM]
      #387132 - 10/10/09 01:05 PM

Hopefully, the state will realize cross deputizing tribal police was a BAD idea.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: fishhog]
      #387153 - 10/10/09 08:25 PM

McCollum is an absolute tool. Love to see him, and these officers resign. I've already seen a strongly worded letter to the Tribe and McCollum. The arrogance on their part is inexcusable.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Dogfish]
      #387155 - 10/10/09 08:32 PM

I'd much more prefer that the two officers be arrested, handcuffed and given rooms at the Jefferson County Bed & Breakfast.

--------------------
"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Gooose]
      #387242 - 10/12/09 02:06 PM

The tribal LE's need to be arrested. They are off the rez with ZERO legal authority over non-tribal citizens. If this was anyone of us we would be in jail for assault with a deadly weapon and more then likely kidnaping or whatever they would call someone being held against there will charges.
This is insane these guys are still on active duty!!!

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Timber]
      #387245 - 10/12/09 04:12 PM

Quote:

Timber said:
The tribal LE's need to be arrested. They are off the rez with ZERO legal authority over non-tribal citizens. If this was anyone of us we would be in jail for assault with a deadly weapon and more then likely kidnaping or whatever they would call someone being held against there will charges.
This is insane these guys are still on active duty!!!




Word, I totally agree with Timber. Kidnapping, illegal search and seizure, illegal detention, assault, commiting a violent crime in the presence of children, as long as several violations of of civil rights. Domestic terrorism? Throw away the key...

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Mojo]
      #387263 - 10/12/09 08:30 PM

One thing to add. The regular Port gamble Tribal Police Dept. wasn't involved in this as the tribal LE officers involved are part of the tribes Natural Resources department. Their regular police force is a high quality by the book LE group whom know the rules. Sad that they may be tainted by the actions of these terrorists.

--------------------
"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Gooose]
      #387297 - 10/13/09 01:16 PM

Any updates???

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: fishhog]
      #387309 - 10/13/09 02:27 PM

Here ya go...
Update

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: Timber]
      #387312 - 10/13/09 03:40 PM

If Cenci said it was a legal hunt, I don't think McCollum should imply it wasn't. Unprofessional conduct, followed by more unprofessional conduct won't make this go away.

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: AuntyM]
      #387339 - 10/13/09 09:57 PM

Unprofessional Aunty? More like illegal dontcha think ???

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Re: Rogue Tribal LE new [Re: fishhog]
      #387346 - 10/14/09 05:25 AM

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it was considered illegal.

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