Gooose
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"Live-capture selective fishing gears have the potential to harvest 20 to 60 hatchery fish for every wild fish or non-target fish mortality. These gears allow tribal harvests to therefore occur at much lower mortalities to ESA-listed species. Use of the gears also remove excess numbers of hatchery-origin fish from escapements, thereby increasing the productivity of the natural spawning populations."
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fishguidebrian
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 I'd love to see this in the Halis right now. Tons of Wilds and few hatchery fish in there.
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Lead_Bouncer
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Brian, Its easy to get the players mixed up, but I think the Chehalis Tribe has expressed interest in selective gear.
Im curious where the quote came from. The numbers from the Colville Tests last year, were much better than that. BTW A similiar issue was finally closed down, elsewhere. Stand guard.
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fishguidebrian
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your dead on LB,, they have but until we can get the QIN to jump onboard we are hosed....
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Gooose
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http://www.salmonrecovery.gov/Biological_Opinions/FCRPS/2008_biop/docs/CCTMOA.pdf
The quote came from that document. If the Colvilles did better than less than 5% mortality as published in 2008 then that's a plus for the fish. 
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Lead_Bouncer
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Oh, the contract. Had not gotten that far.. Base on their last test, they did much better. The numbers are on an old thread that Marsha poster earlier this year. They lost 27 fish and 25 were in a tangle net. Total fish caught was 2,057
Have fun arguing with the Nofishwillbesaved crowd.
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Gooose
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I agree partially with that crowd so no large problems there.  Tribal and non-tribal commercial fisheries going to selective live capture methods will see those fisheries harvesting a larger portion of hatchery returns. In a scenario using those newer Colville numbers in the LCR for instance where if the commercial harvest was 100% live capture I would find it difficult for them to actually reach their ESA allowable allocation for the Spring Chinook fishery even if it remained at the current 40% of the 2%. They will though be able to effectively remove a large portion of the excess hatchery fish. There would certainly have to be some agreements with the upstream tribes to account for increased harvest of upriver hatchery fish but I am sure that is currently being discussed at a speculative stage. Sport fishing/commercial troll harvest opportunity would probably be increased in our coast fisheries as that is where the ESA benefits would likely be transferred. That would allow even more hatchery fish to be harvested. Yes the LCR sport fishery will also benefit by having additional opportunity to fish.
A similar scenario could happen in Grays Harbor. The Harbor at one time saw the extensive use of fish traps downstream from Hoquaim....note the long rows of pilings out there some time. Fortunately ESA isn't a complication in the Harbor...yet.
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Lead_Bouncer
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If the ESA benefits are transferred to the ocean fishery, isnt that just changing the place where the wild fish die?
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Gooose
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Yes. Commercial troll fishers would probably be the beneficiaries. ESA "allowable take" is a valuable commodity. The transfer can also just as easily go to other sources of "take." If you don't use it someone else will certainly demand it and under the existing rules it's fair game. Unused ESA LCR Fall Chinook and Coho would be an extremely attractive plum for Westport and Lapush for increasing their seasons.
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GrimmReaper
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Quote:
Gooose said:
Yes. Commercial troll fishers would probably be the beneficiaries. ESA "allowable take" is a valuable commodity. The transfer can also just as easily go to other sources of "take." If you don't use it someone else will certainly demand it and under the existing rules it's fair game. Unused ESA LCR Fall Chinook and Coho would be an extremely attractive plum for Westport and Lapush for increasing their seasons.
Goose so are you saying that in addtion to moving to selective gear we need to change the rules too. Modify them to say the gained ESA impacts need to be allocated to conservation.
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Lead_Bouncer
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Nathan, can you email me at Leadbouncer@aol.com please?
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Gooose
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Yes Grimm that's what is needed if ESA benefits are going to substantially occur. 
Hey Boater.
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boater
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Gooose said:
Hey Boater.
howdy, i deleted my post as you know because i just dont want to get involved with another argument about this, have fun
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Gooose
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What's to argue?
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boater
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i dont like arguing with the pro commercial fishing crowd on a sportfishing board.
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Gooose
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Oh that balderdash.  Selective live capture commercial methods was coming well before the CCA waved that flag. Better off spending time and energy participating in the process of changes that are occurring in regards to hatcheries, wild fish, and harvest management than pissing and moaning about it. Hatcheries are not going away but are going to change. Neither is commercial fishing going away but it is certainly going to change. Wild fish restoration as being conducted now is not going to happen on a large grand scale but there will always be a few small victories to encourage the public. Fishing opportunities are going to change and may not be where or what we have had for years now. Might be time to look beyond the issues being fought over now.
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"Seen worse".....
It's Gonna Be A Long Winter
There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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