FireFish
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I guess the questions is, “What would it take to gain control of the money's that are slated for Fish & Wildlife”. Gooose, I'm sure you can help us all understand this.... 
Currently, is all the money that is generated from the purchase and sale of, Fishing/Hunting Licenses, Taxes on; Fishing Gear/Tackle, Hunting Gear ie; Rifles Shot Guns, Ammo, Boats, Motor's Accessories etc, etc, etc.... dumped into a general fund or is it Line-Itemed specific for WDFW. I think I know the answer, but would like some clarification.
What would happen to the States General Fund, if all the monies generated from said items listed above and more, could only be spent on Fish & Wildlife. Possibly the ability to restructure the entire program and gain control of the way it is managed. There would be money to finally put into practice a number of programs that should have happened a long time ago. Fisheries management would have enough personnel and resources to make a difference. A percentage of monies that should be allocated for enforcement would be there, so as Fish and Game enforcement would truly exist.
You’re also talking about Habitat Restoration, Game Bird Programs, work towards the goals established for hatchery reform, selective harvest measures and management.
So if the people of Washington State wanted to ensure that the money we spend, goes directly into and is used solely by WDFW, what would it take... Signed Petitions, get it on a Ballot to be voted on by citizens of Washington... Hmmmmm  
I'm just curious.....
FireFish Out... 
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Marty
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What is the $$ number that is going in?
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Gooose
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Whom would have control? A commission of appointed citizens or elected citizens? An elected director instead? 
State sales tax goes to the general fund. Federal excise tax goes into a large Federal fund which is apportioned back to each state based upon license sales.
All hunting, freshwater and nearly all of the saltwater license fees goes into the Wildlife account or other dedicated accounts. There has been several attempts to move the last remaining saltwater fees that do go to the general fund into the Wildlife account. Not a lot of money there but it resolves an issue.
Interesting concept restructuring a large agency in detail via citizens initiative. That will be a thick pile of paper. I don' see it happening.
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Lead_Bouncer
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The excise tax is probably a slush fund for whomever is in charge. We used up 4.5 million for nets and 25? million to destroy the river bed in the columbia.
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Gooose
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Really? Tonites research:Dingel-Johnson, Wallop-Breaux, Pitman-Roberts. Try a search on those 3 Federal excise taxes and post what you found.
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Lead_Bouncer
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http://wildlifelaw.unm.edu/fedbook/djact.html
http://www.asafishing.org/government/wallop_breaux.html
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusfd16usc669.htm
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Gooose
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"The excise tax is probably a slush fund for whomever is in charge"
and the results of your research tells you what?
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AuntyM
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Based on the "estimates" of passive use of the resource, AKA "watching wildlife" as a percentage, that's what the general fund should contribute to WDFW as well as ALL money collected from the non-passive users.
I'm getting REAL tired of the "wildlife watchers" not paying their way with the department but demanding this and that. Of course, I am suspicious of any group that carries around binoculars... buncha peeping toms if you ask me.
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FireFish
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So Gooose, are you saying that WDFW and programs that they oversee and run, are currently receiving all the money that they could to support the Department. As in, none of the money goes into any other area. If that is the case, and I'm sure I could look it up. How much money are we talking here. I always hear that Fishing and Hunting is a Billion Dollar Industry in this State, yet there is never enough money to run the very Departments which are aligned to oversee these particular area's...
Just trying to understand the process a little better...
FireFish Out...
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Gooose
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If fishing and hunting is a Billion dollar industry how much of that should go towards fishing and hunting management? Let' use that number as a theoretical start point. Apply the current state sales tax rate of 6.5% to it. $65,000,000. That's if all of that billion was composed of items that were effected by sales tax that could be attributed to fishing and hunting. Actually a large portion of that number is composed of an estimate of what would be spent on a trip such as gas, food, beverage, and accommodations. I suppose that when I buy a breakfast burrito on the way to fish the Lyre I can sign a piece of paper saying it was fishing related so the tax goes to WDFW.
Really the only funds that could be teased out of the sales tax are those that can be directly attributed to fishing and hunting such as tackle, bait, and ammo. You should read the entirety of the several studies from which that infamous Billion dollar claim is so quickly acclaimed. One of the disclaimers by the most recent study regarding the value of fishing points out that the recreational number isn't that solid of a value in regards to economic benefits. Simply put..if you have a $100 to spend beyond paying bills that you are not saving/investing you are going to spend that $100 on something taxable. It may be fishing or it may be taking the family to the Mall or out to dinner but in the end the only real thing that matters is that you will spend that $100.
Find me a number for the amount of fishing gear retail sales and we can discuss some actual dollars and what they can do.
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AuntyM
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Psst... chopped liver here... I was serious.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/viewing/watchwld/watchwld.htm
These people need to be purchasing a wildlife viewing license and if they don't, they should be ticketed and fined. No more looking at birds or any other wildlife without a license!
(OK, that part isn't serious, but puuuhlease. Don't constantly tell me the value of said activity, but not be willing to "adequately" fund the department that is promoting it.
I guess WDFW is catering to the wrong user group.
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Gooose
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Chopped liver?  How about a voluntary tax like the one for our vehicle tabs similar to the one that isn't working that well for state parks? 
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Lead_Bouncer
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ouch.
Ok, there is no snow in the fund. Perhaps my use of the word slush was too broad. Like any other funding paid in by the states, I have to wonder if we get back everything we put in.
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AuntyM
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I have no problem with paying for more, as long as I'm not paying executive salaries for guys that don't actually work. However, more and more citizens are making demands on the department that don't pay for their pet projects/programs. Divers who want WDFW to create lots more MPA's so they can look at the pretty colored fish comes to mind.
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FireFish
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Very good points M... I agree with the fact that you have all these additional so called user groups of the resource who reap the benefits however pay in nothing. It would be nice to itemize those areas out as well and establish a so called “Users Fee” especially because most of those other areas in one form or another involve habitat...
Gooose, don't get me wrong... I said I keep hearing that our States Sports Fishing and Hunting is a Billion Dollar industry and I agree with you 100%. It's not about all the money that is put back into the economy from that Liar Breakfast Burrito, or the Hotel room I stay in when I go out to the Peninsula to fish for a few days. That is money going back into the community and a broad spectrum of taxes dollars going into the general fund etc. I’m looking for the guesstimated dollars spent on all those area's that could be allotted to WDFW ie; as for-mentioned, Licenses, Tackle, Ammo, Guns, Boats, Motors, Crab Pots, etc. etc. Or are taxes and fees collected in all those area's already going towards WDFW and said programs, or if they are not, How Come.... 
FireFish Out...
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AuntyM
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FF,
More than half of the departments funding comes out of the general fund. We don't pay enough to foot the whole bill. I think that's fair, because every resident benefits from the resource in one way or another. Mostly as consumers of commercial and tribal fisheries, but also having wildlife programs. I think a raise in our fees is appropriate, but what we don't cover, the state SHOULD, out of the general fund.
If you were to compare budgets for most of our state agencies, you'd notice that WDFW is underfunded for the mandates/work they are expected to accomplish in comparison to other agencies. State Parks has typically been underfunded also. Not so with say, the State Ferry system or WSDOT.
The best way to change tha, believe it or not is lobbying. The squeeky wheel that will use it's clout will be the one that gets the rewards. Kind of like the teachers unions did a few years ago.
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Gooose
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Give me a number for how much is being spent retail on fishing and hunting. 6.5% of that is what is being generated by those items that goes into the General Fund. Compare that number to the General Fund appropriation total and you have your answer. I strongly suspect that the revenue is considerably less than what is provided from the General Fund. You get to do the footwork. 
There's no changing the Federal amounts that we receive from our contributions in excise taxes. We get 100% of what we are going to get.
A small amount of our license fees does go into the General Fund. See my first paragraph above. Changing that doesn't change the results. Fishing and hunting revenue from existing license fees, Federal excise taxes, and sale tax on purchases directly attributable to those activities is not capable of funding the agency operations by itself. Add to that all of the costs associated with HSRG and modernizing our hatchery system. Most of those costs will be state bond money. All tax payers pay on that and the largest portion by those whom do not hunt or fish.
In other words.....no fishing and hunting no matter how you play it is not nearly capable of paying the freight.
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Gooose
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Did you know that WDFW provides a free expensive service to everyone and anyone whom wants to alter our fish habitats? It's called the Hydraulic Code and the HPA permit system. No user fees involved aka no costs borne by those whom benefit from receiving a permit. Is that right? It's one valuable tool for protecting fish and it's one of the first to get cut back. You want to be a squeaky fish saving wheel there's some squeaking for you to do. 
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AuntyM
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Fees and permits shouldn't be free. Tell Brian to get on that. Tell him that bitch AuntyM said so.
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Gooose
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That will probably work.
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FireFish
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And you guys wonder why I throw out topics for discussion in this forum... Always Entertaining and Educational...
FireFish Out...
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Gooose
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"Tell Brian to get on that. Tell him that bitch AuntyM said so."
He said Hi and suggested you broach the subject with the honorable Mr. Sheldon.
Duane try to keep it down to bout one or two a month. What's left of my aging brain is being mightily over taxed lately by work   Hmmmmmm 28 foot boat + cash out retirement + BC Inside Passage + SE Alaska = Temptation.         
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There's lies, damned lies and then there are statistics......Mark Twain
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FireFish
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Looks like a solid plan there Gooose. And I promise not to tax your Brain Cells all too much...
FireFish Out...
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