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Sturgeonator
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Re: Anyone know WHY we can't use 209 ignition in WA? new [Re: clucknmoan]
      #393107 - 01/18/10 10:07 PM

In Idaho 209 primer and pelleted powder substitutes aren't allowed in the primitive weapon hunts to maintain the primitive aspect, loose black powder or BP substitute only. You also can't use jacketed projectiles, soft lead only. The percussion cap also has to be exposed. Used to have to have an exposed hammer as well but that may have changed recently.

The use of 209 primers was necessitated by the advent of solid pellet powder substitutes. Regular percussion caps weren't powerful enough to ignite the pellets reliably especially when most inlines can use three pellets which is the equivalent of 150 grains of black powder.

Most traditional ML's are limited to around 100 grains of loose black powder or BP substitute and pellets are not recommended.

I do know that much more than 100 grains of powder can create enough pressure to re-cock the hammer on a traditional caplock leaving the cap fragments to escape at fairly high velocity very near your face.

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The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
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Tight Lines,
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clucknmoan
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Re: Anyone know WHY we can't use 209 ignition in WA? new [Re: Sturgeonator]
      #393122 - 01/19/10 09:00 AM

I am aware of the Idaho Codes, that's pretty much all I hunt with. The cap has to either be a number 11 or musket and it only has to be just partially exposed. Originaly you had to have a pivoting hammer but that was changed sometime in the early 90's (they never pointed out the change, they just dropped the line from the regs), then as everyone knows it changed back 3 seasons ago and then again 2 seasons ago making in-lines legal again. The regs now allow for a gas cup (that's not bonded to the bullet) on the rear of the bullet but other than that it has to be fully lead, no coating, no sabbot.

I thought just as you did, the 209's are more dependable than the muskets. More spark = More BOOM. I shot 150 grains in pellets for quite a few years and didn't ever have much of an issue with ignition.

The only difference I have noticed in the times I have shot 209's is the delay. There is none, no click and then boom, just boom. They shoot more like a rifle as far as delay goes. Less of a chance to pull off your point of aim to miss or worse yet to wound.


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SwampElk
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Re: Anyone know WHY we can't use 209 ignition in WA? new [Re: clucknmoan]
      #404889 - 09/18/10 11:24 PM

The whole 209 primer vs exposed cap ignition controversy logic escapes me. Just for the record, I hunt with a Whites in-line using open sights and a #11mag cap. It still loads the same and takes the same time for a second shot and the rifle shoots the same powder, WTF?????
If black powder/substitutes and open sights along with an in-line is legal then ignition should be a moot point. Caps are virtualy waterproof, I've done many tests over 3 years by soaking several musket and #11 caps for 1-5 days in a bowl of water and it does nothing to diminish the accuracy nor dependability of my rifle. I even sprayed car ignition sealer into the cap's once and soaked them in water for a month with the exact same accuracy/reliability results.
I have no personal reason to change but I would like to be able to buy and use a larger choice of rifles on the market that might suit my personal taste.
In my opinion, 209 vs caps do not equal more reliable ignition nor better accuacy. They do, however, equal more rifle selections.
Having said all the above........ I still don't understand?????

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SwampElk
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Re: Anyone know WHY we can't use 209 ignition in WA? new [Re: SwampElk]
      #404890 - 09/18/10 11:35 PM

And also for the record I did all the above tests with 95 grain 777 and 2-50 grain 777 pellets.(the pellets shot 1" lower than the loose powder)
Mike

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lotechjoe
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Re: Anyone know WHY we can't use 209 ignition in WA? new [Re: Luke_the_Drifter]
      #405985 - 10/14/10 03:38 PM

I suppose you could email the Washington State Muzzleloaders Association and ask them. Here's a link;
http://www.wamuzzleloaders.org/

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2many
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Re: Anyone know WHY we can't use 209 ignition in WA? [Re: SwampElk]
      #405990 - 10/14/10 06:24 PM

That there swampelk has a good point.

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